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06-25-2016, 06:10 AM
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#1
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chattanooga
Posts: 3,893
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Is this kosher ?
A few years ago I was asked to take some photos of the neighborhood for the HOA website. Today I get a flyer in the mail from a real estate company that has my photos plaster all over the front of the flyer. Neither I or the HOA was asked permission to use the photos.
I few of my photog friends said this is absolutely illegal and that I should send an invoice to the real estate company.
Although I am an amateur photographer I have done some paid works in the past, if that makes any difference.
Your thoughts ?
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06-25-2016, 06:32 AM
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#2
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Lakewood
Posts: 920
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Absolutely send an invoice. If they refuse to pay, your next recourse is either small claims court or you can threaten to negatively, and factually, review them on Yelp.
I think in the long run, you're helping them by keeping that realtor honest and reminding them of professional courtesy, civility, and the law.
A little off topic, but I have a friend who goes through this all the time. Sounds like the magazine industry really tries to exploit professional photographers by using submitted samples without permission or notification and ignoring subsequent invoices.
__________________
Why be normal when you can be yourself?
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06-25-2016, 06:54 AM
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#3
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Williston, FL
Posts: 3,925
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Contact the broker of the RE company. If they are reputable, they will chastise the agent and not use them any more.
It was likely a young agent, looking for business with the flyer. It was a violation of copyright law.
I doubt you will get paid, but maybe you will get $100 or so as a good faith measure.
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06-25-2016, 07:00 AM
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#4
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Apex and Bradenton
Posts: 1,847
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Were your photos copyright protected?
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06-25-2016, 07:06 AM
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#5
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chattanooga
Posts: 3,893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latexman
Were your photos copyright protected?
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Yes.
__________________
Earning money is an action, saving money is a behavior, growing money takes a well diversified portfolio and the discipline to ignore market swings.
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06-25-2016, 08:21 AM
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#6
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,010
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Do some reading on copyright violations on photography forums and blogs. There are ways to cause them major problems if they don't offer you just payment.
Hopefully the photo files they used will still have the exif info showing your camera.
__________________
You do not have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body.
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06-25-2016, 08:22 AM
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#7
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 17,774
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Defintely pursue it.
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“Would you like an adventure now, or would you like to have your tea first?” J.M. Barrie, Peter Pan
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06-25-2016, 09:18 AM
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#8
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Utrecht
Posts: 2,650
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Whether you are professional or amateur, copyright rests with the creator unless (s)he transferred rights. You clearly didn't.
So it's not kosher.
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06-25-2016, 10:30 AM
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#9
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gone traveling
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: DFW
Posts: 7,586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latexman
Were your photos copyright protected?
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I do not believe the photos need copyright watermarks to be protected.
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06-25-2016, 11:47 AM
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#10
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern WV Panhandle
Posts: 25,340
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What matters is whether the photos were registered at the U.S. Copyright office. Unless the photographer signs away his rights copyright automatically belongs to the person who pressed the shutter button. That's very nice, but without registration enforcement is all but useless. Given the timelines it may not be too late but get the photos registered. Today (well, Monday anyway) and you may have a case.
This video is long at 1:15 but covers the subject well. I also have their book on my bookshelf.
__________________
When I was a kid I wanted to be older. This is not what I expected.
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06-25-2016, 11:47 AM
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#11
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooch96
A little off topic, but I have a friend who goes through this all the time. Sounds like the magazine industry really tries to exploit professional photographers by using submitted samples without permission or notification and ignoring subsequent invoices.
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A friend in NJ was taken aback when a newspaper article about a promotion at her job was accompanied by her FaceBook profile picture. She hadn't offered it- they just tracked it down and used it.
Definitely say something- people need to know that just because a photo was available to them it wasn't meant to be used elsewhere without permission.
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06-25-2016, 12:49 PM
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#12
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 17,774
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The fact that the OP's photos were "published" several years ago on the HOA website certainly bolsters the ownership, although doubtful the agent would claim he/she owns them. Write a cordial letter to the agent with your suggestion of how to make it right and copy the agency owner. Don't mention the lack of registration with the (c) office, and if that comes up point out that it us just a formality (unlikely the agent is familiar with current copyright laws anyway).
__________________
“Would you like an adventure now, or would you like to have your tea first?” J.M. Barrie, Peter Pan
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06-25-2016, 03:26 PM
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#13
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 47,500
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My thoughts on this differ from everyone else's thoughts.
Basically, you regard yourself as mostly an amateur. You weren't paid for the photos.
So somebody took an amateur's photos from the internet, big deal (IMO). Like THAT never happens, right? What I would do, if you care at all, is to get them to mention in small print that you are the photographer. I wouldn't try to get money for them, because really as an amateur photographer you did not incur a loss. Maybe legally, but not in my version of the real world.
It looks like I am the only one who thinks this, so probably you should ignore all of the above.
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Happily retired since 2009, at age 61. Best years of my life by far!
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06-25-2016, 04:19 PM
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#14
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chattanooga
Posts: 3,893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W2R
My thoughts on this differ from everyone else's thoughts.
Basically, you regard yourself as mostly an amateur. You weren't paid for the photos.
So somebody took an amateur's photos from the internet, big deal (IMO). Like THAT never happens, right? What I would do, if you care at all, is to get them to mention in small print that you are the photographer. I wouldn't try to get money for them, because really as an amateur photographer you did not incur a loss. Maybe legally, but not in my version of the real world.
It looks like I am the only one who thinks this, so probably you should ignore all of the above.
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I pretty much agree with you as I'm not after the money at all but do enjoy being a bit ornery at times. My first thought is to invoice them for $250 per photo, totaling $1000 and then if they contact me and want to negotiate just tell them to make a $500 donation to the HOA. It is a national real estate firm which should know better in the first place.
__________________
Earning money is an action, saving money is a behavior, growing money takes a well diversified portfolio and the discipline to ignore market swings.
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06-25-2016, 05:09 PM
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#15
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Ex-Cali
Posts: 1,245
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I am clearly in the minority here but I would probably ignore and move on. It is a compliment to your photos, has no bearing on you whatsoever and so what's the big deal!? I would ignore. Life is too short to worry about every "injustice" that happens to us.
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The plan was September 1, 2022 and I am 95% there. Still working a few hours a week at the real job.
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06-25-2016, 05:44 PM
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#16
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 17,241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frayne
I pretty much agree with you as I'm not after the money at all but do enjoy being a bit ornery at times. My first thought is to invoice them for $250 per photo, totaling $1000 and then if they contact me and want to negotiate just tell them to make a $500 donation to the HOA. It is a national real estate firm which should know better in the first place.
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I bet that the firm who published this is a locally owned entity.... it would be a franchise of the national RE firm...
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06-25-2016, 06:38 PM
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#17
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 13,920
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make a stink. Far too many ppl think "oh it's on the internet it's free" and steal artists works all the time. if nothing else you'll teach this offender that they need to AT LEAST ask for permission in the future.
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06-25-2016, 06:47 PM
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#18
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 13,186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frayne
Your thoughts ?
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Be prepared to document and substantiate your losses due to this unauthorized use of your pics. Otherwise, after you pay your legal team to adjudicate this infringement, all you'll receive is the satisfaction of having them ordered to cease using the pics.
While I sympathize with your displeasure at finding your snapshots being used to promote your neighborhood without your permission, if I was the real estate company, I wouldn't pay you a nickle until, and if, a judge ordered me to do so.
BTW, was your work clearly identified as yours on the HOA web site so the real estate company could have contacted you for permission?
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
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06-25-2016, 07:25 PM
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#19
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 8,968
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Send them a bill for whatever the HOA paid you.
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06-25-2016, 07:44 PM
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#20
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: yonder
Posts: 2,851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerides
make a stink...if nothing else you'll teach this offender that they need to AT LEAST ask for permission in the future.
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And just how would you propose to: "make a stink...teach this offender that they need to AT LEAST ask for permission in the future"?
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When the people shall have nothing more to eat, they will eat the rich--philosopher Jean-Jacques Rousseau
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