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Re: Joe Lieberman Loses In Connecticut
Old 08-09-2006, 11:47 AM   #21
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Re: Joe Lieberman Loses In Connecticut

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Originally Posted by Alex
Personally, I will be voting for, and would like to see GRIDLOCK. The gov't that does least, does best.
Suits me. Democratic control of both houses would hamstring the Monkey pretty nicely. Want to start a war? Well you need a lot of money. Guess who controls the purse strings?
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Re: Joe Lieberman Loses In Connecticut
Old 08-09-2006, 12:13 PM   #22
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Re: Joe Lieberman Loses In Connecticut

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Originally Posted by eridanus
I agree but than why do you toss around soundbites claiming that the Democratic party is controlled by those who want "socialism"? That's hardly "consensus building" (George, is that you?).

Flag burning and homosexuality are smoke and mirrors issues.
I think we have entirely too many homosexual flag-burners... :
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Re: Joe Lieberman Loses In Connecticut
Old 08-09-2006, 12:18 PM   #23
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Re: Joe Lieberman Loses In Connecticut

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Originally Posted by FIRE ME!
I would be the prefect candidate, of course.* But since I'm not running, you'll just have to settle for whoever shows up on your ballot.

As far as having me pegged and thinking I don't understand our political system...I'll let you think as wrongly as you like.*

I will say this though.* The issues we face as a nation are far more complex than the soundbites from the Left or the Right and require serious thought and consensus building.* Politicians don't stay in power by seriously thinking about the issues and building consensus.* They stay in power by keeping people ignorant, spoon feeding them what they want them to think, and creating class warfare.* Power, of course, breeds corruption, which is why it should be decentralized as much as possible.


That is the only way that the powers that be can continue the status quo.

God forbid we should all get along and pay attention to what is really happening in this country and what is happening to all of our freedoms.* Even if we do see it, the chances of us ever being able to do something about it is very small..between outside sources and inside politics along with the money grabbers world wide we are in trouble. *

Seems to me people are too interested in calling each other names liberal, conservative like each is a bad name not to mention being called bigots if we don't agree with what ever is the norm for the day, week or month. *If were not careful we will be turned into a my way or no way country of religious zealots and puritancal baboons..but then that is just my take on things.

As far as Lieberman winning or loosing or any of them for that matter, I think they all have their own aggenda and could care less about any of us. Even if we get another party system it will be the same there all in it for themselves show me an honest politician.....drum roll please....ain't gonna happen.

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Re: Joe Lieberman Loses In Connecticut
Old 08-09-2006, 12:22 PM   #24
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Re: Joe Lieberman Loses In Connecticut

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Originally Posted by brewer12345
Suits me. Democratic control of both houses would hamstring the Monkey pretty nicely. Want to start a war? Well you need a lot of money. Guess who controls the purse strings?
AMEN - The main reason to want divided government is to slow down the financial destruction of the United States a bit. In the recent past the two periods of slowest growth in the federal government have occurred when we had divided government; in the Reagan years, with a GOP White House and a Democratic Congress, and in the Clinton years, with a Democratic White House and GOP Congress.

Both parties are evil, but at least with divided government they spend most of their energy fighting each other. That's the best I can hope for in the short term.

So, the strategy is simple - vote against whichever party is in the Whitehouse regardless.
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Re: Joe Lieberman Loses In Connecticut
Old 08-09-2006, 12:34 PM   #25
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Re: Joe Lieberman Loses In Connecticut

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Originally Posted by FIRE ME!
Let's take a look at abortion. *Where's the common sense in allowing a 13 year old to get one without at least consulting her parents, getting a basic education about what she is doing, and waiting for 48 hours? *Where is the common sense in forcing a woman who has been raped and impregnated (who doesn't believe that life begins at conception) to have a baby? *Where's the common sense in forcing millions who believe most abortions are morally wrong to subsidize the millions of abortions done for the only reason of convenience? *(I don't see any freedom in that.)

Speaking of freedom, sadly, we abandonded the constitution years ago and gave up many of our freedoms as we gave all sorts of power to the federal government. *The people have abdicated the responsibilities that come with living as a free people in a free society. *
BTW, government doesn't pay for abortions.

Taxes pay for a variety of things that individual people don't believe in. Some feel their moral position requires them to not pay taxes at all. I knew some tax protesters from way back when who did not pay taxes because money went to support the war in Viet Nam.

There are things government does which I oppose on moral grounds. But I won't be a tax protester.
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Re: Joe Lieberman Loses In Connecticut
Old 08-09-2006, 12:40 PM   #26
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Re: Joe Lieberman Loses In Connecticut

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Originally Posted by Alex
Both parties are evil, but at least with divided government they spend most of their energy fighting each other. That's the best I can hope for in the short term.
Actually, I would argue that the split forced both sides to learn to work together and up with more moderate solutions to our problems. That's a nice contrast to the current "sod you" attitude of the party in power.
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Re: Joe Lieberman Loses In Connecticut
Old 08-09-2006, 12:47 PM   #27
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Re: Joe Lieberman Loses In Connecticut

I don't really think Dems force the abortion issue. The law is what it is and if it were just left alone there would be no issue. Its the Anti-choice folks who are always pushing the issue and the Dems are the ones who are left to defend the law.

I've visited lots of countries where abortion is legal and although I'm sure not everyone agrees, it is not disputed. Those people are mature enough to realize that abortions always have and always will exist, its just a matter of letting the woman get it done safely.

We should all support preventative measures, but sadly there are people out there now who are fighting against "Plan B" a morning after pill that prevents pregnancy. To me that just shows they don't just want to end abortion, they want to control women's lives.

Back on Topic... I do feel sorry for Lieberman in a way, but he was supposed to be representing the people of Connecticut and they don't want war.
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Re: Joe Lieberman Loses In Connecticut
Old 08-09-2006, 12:51 PM   #28
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Re: Joe Lieberman Loses In Connecticut

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Originally Posted by Martha
BTW, government doesn't pay for abortions.
How much funding goes to Planned Parenthood?

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Re: Joe Lieberman Loses In Connecticut
Old 08-09-2006, 12:55 PM   #29
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Re: Joe Lieberman Loses In Connecticut

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Originally Posted by shiny
Back on Topic...* I do feel sorry for Lieberman in a way, but he was supposed to be representing the people of Connecticut and they don't want war.
Thanks for bringing it back on topic.

I think that JL wins in November as an independent.
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Re: Joe Lieberman Loses In Connecticut
Old 08-09-2006, 01:08 PM   #30
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Re: Joe Lieberman Loses In Connecticut

Has anyone read Lieberman's 'concession' speech?
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/09/ny...tliebermn.html

He wants to be "a uniter" (gee, just think how that echo of Bush is gonna go over.. great tin ear, Joe..). So that's why he's splitting off from his own party (for the "good of my party" --his words)!!! *
Begs the question of how it can be "his" party if he's bailing on it. He may be right, but not in the way he thinks he is.

He wants to get away from "partisan politics" (bashing the nominee from within his own party?!)

I think the guy has just lost his moorings.
He came out in 2003 with some criticisms of the handling of the war, and should have at least stuck with that line.
He might be his own worst enemy at this point.

Got in a dig at Lamont for his supposed "hacked" website, when it turns out his campaign had gone to some fly-by-night hoster for $15/mo. (or was that intentional? *). Now he's got Rove telling him "whatever we can do, we will do.." Now THAT's Joementum!


As far as Democrats/Republicans are concerned, this is a very interesting set of questions for us to be asking ourselves:
Quote:
The idea that Lieberman is some sort of "centrist Democrat" and that the effort to defeat him is driven by radical leftists who hate bipartisanship is nothing short of inane. Why would Sean Hannity and Bill Kristol be so eager to keep a "centrist Democrat" in the Senate? Lincoln Chafee is a "centrist Republican." Are there any Democrats or liberals who care if Lincoln Chafee wins his primary? Do leftist ideologues run around praising and defending and working for the re-election of Olympia Snowe or Chris Shays or other Republican "centrists"? Do Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity love other Democratic "centrists," such as, say, Mary Landrieu or Joe Biden? The answer to all of those questions is plainly "no".

The love which right-wing extremists have for Joe Lieberman isn't based on the fact that he's a "centrist." If Lieberman were a "centrist," extremists would not care about him. They would not be vigorously urging his re-election, or praising his potential appointment as Bush Defense Secretary, or touting him as a Vice-Presidential running mate for George Allen. They do that because he is one of them...
http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/

the above is not by Greenwald, but a guest.. anyway, his site is excellent for its lucidity.

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Re: Joe Lieberman Loses In Connecticut
Old 08-09-2006, 01:15 PM   #31
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Re: Joe Lieberman Loses In Connecticut

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Originally Posted by FIRE ME!
How much funding goes to Planned Parenthood?

Sorry, off topic I know.

Planned Parenthood cannot use federal money to pay for abortions.

I suppose that there might be a state that allows state money to pay for abortions.

Not trying to start an abortion discussion.* I was just picking up on the issue of tax collections often going to support things we morally oppose.*
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Re: Joe Lieberman Loses In Connecticut
Old 08-09-2006, 01:20 PM   #32
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Re: Joe Lieberman Loses In Connecticut

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Originally Posted by ladelfina
Has anyone read Lieberman's 'concession' speech?
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/09/ny...tliebermn.html

He wants to be "a uniter" (gee, just think how that echo of Bush is gonna go over.. great tin ear, Joe..). So that's why he's splitting off from his own party (for the "good of my party" --his words)!!! *
Begs the question of how it can be "his" party if he's bailing on it. He may be right, but not in the way he thinks he is.

He wants to get away from "partisan politics" (bashing the nominee from within his own party?!)

I think the guy has just lost his moorings.
He came out in 2003 with some criticisms of the handling of the war, and should have at least stuck with that line.
He might be his own worst enemy at this point.
My best guess is that Lieberman drops out of the race by Labor Day, or shortly thereafter. He will find it very tough sledding indeed as the Democratic party closes ranks with him on the outside, buck naked with his balls blowing in the breeze. No money, no support, no endorsements. But I bet he will be given the kindly talking to first in an effort to get him to see that a run as an independent is pointlessly divisive.

No doubt we will hear lots of blather from Fox "News" and all the right wing basher brigade, and maybe they will throw him some moeny to encourage him, but I doubt it will be enough.
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Re: Joe Lieberman Loses In Connecticut
Old 08-09-2006, 02:40 PM   #33
 
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Re: Joe Lieberman Loses In Connecticut

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Originally Posted by FIRE ME!
I would be the prefect candidate, of course. But since I'm not running, you'll just have to settle for whoever shows up on your ballot.

As far as having me pegged and thinking I don't understand our political system...I'll let you think as wrongly as you like.

I will say this though. The issues we face as a nation are far more complex than the soundbites from the Left or the Right and require serious thought and consensus building. Politicians don't stay in power by seriously thinking about the issues and building consensus. They stay in power by keeping people ignorant, spoon feeding them what they want them to think, and creating class warfare. Power, of course, breeds corruption, which is why it should be decentralized as much as possible.
You sound like someone that doesn't vote to me. If you can't name anyone in the public in America today that you would support for President, then they have succeeded by keeping people ignorant. Wanting to have your 'own' way does not work in a representative government.

You want a 'Third' party. Do you know why we only have 2 Main ones?

So far your statements are illogical, incorrect and mostly incoherent. I'll bet you get your news and information from the Rush Limbaugh show or at the local bar.
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Re: Joe Lieberman Loses In Connecticut
Old 08-09-2006, 03:02 PM   #34
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Re: Joe Lieberman Loses In Connecticut

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Originally Posted by Cut-Throat

So far your statements are illogical, incorrect and mostly incoherent. I'll bet you get your news and information from the Rush Limbaugh show or at the local bar.
Easy CT, we have a long time to elections.

I don't peg FIRE ME as a Limbaugh type. Not enough info in my mind to see exactly where he is coming from. I have heard enough of Limbaugh to know that he is highly disapproving of those who purport to be at all in the middle of the road.
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Re: Joe Lieberman Loses In Connecticut
Old 08-09-2006, 03:29 PM   #35
 
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Re: Joe Lieberman Loses In Connecticut

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Originally Posted by Martha
Easy CT, we have a long time to elections.

I don't peg FIRE ME as a Limbaugh type. Not enough info in my mind to see exactly where he is coming from. I have heard enough of Limbaugh to know that he is highly disapproving of those who purport to be at all in the middle of the road.
Well, I did not start this tirade and certainly did not want to sit by the sidelines, as by giving silent approval, but this sounds like a Rush Limkbaugh quote if I ever heard one.

Quote:
I'd say it was the Democratic party that left him. It is run by left wing extremists who only care about maintaining power and shoving abortion, homosexuality, and socialism down everyone's throats.
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Re: Joe Lieberman Loses In Connecticut
Old 08-09-2006, 03:33 PM   #36
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Re: Joe Lieberman Loses In Connecticut

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Originally Posted by Cut-Throat
You sound like someone that doesn't vote to me. If you can't name anyone in the public in America today that you would support for President, then they have succeeded by keeping people ignorant. Wanting to have your 'own' way does not work in a representative government.

You want a 'Third' party. Do you know why we only have 2 Main ones?

So far your statements are illogical, incorrect and mostly incoherent. I'll bet you get your news and information from the Rush Limbaugh show or at the local bar.
I'm surprised...in reading some of your other posts you didn't seem humor impaired. *Didn't you notice the "winking smile" after my comment about me being the perfect candidate?

Did you ignore my comments about consensus building? *I have very strong and reasoned views on many of the issues we face today. (And I vote and encourage participation in our system. *In fact, some of my work forces me to be quite aware of the who/where/what/when of politics.) *I also have the humility to realize I don't know everything on every subject and forcing my views (both the correct and innocently incorrect) upon everyone (or anyone) else doesn't solve anything. *Love doesn't force its own way.

Our country was founded as a constitutional republic to protect those in the minority. *Sadly we are moving more towards a democracy (if not already there) where 51 will shove it down the throat of 49. *Yeah, that sounds great when we're on the 51 side, but one day we'll find ourselves on the 49 side and won't like it too much.

I'm sorry you find me illogical, incorrect, and mostly incoherent. *I'm doing the best I can.

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Re: Joe Lieberman Loses In Connecticut
Old 08-09-2006, 03:41 PM   #37
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Re: Joe Lieberman Loses In Connecticut

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Originally Posted by Cut-Throat
Well, I did not start this tirade and certainly did not want to sit by the sidelines, as by giving silent approval, but this sounds like a Rush Limkbaugh quote if I ever heard one.

Quote:
I'd say it was the Democratic party that left him. It is run by left wing extremists who only care about maintaining power and shoving abortion, homosexuality, and socialism down everyone's throats.
Here, I'll make you feel better. The Republican party is controled by religious moralists and big business who want to legislate their vision of "christianity" and "godly capitalism"

There are many in both parties who are well meaning and sincere in there objectives and efforts. Control and power, though is exercised by a minority, who are not necessarily as sincere and honest. It is power they enjoy and power that they are after. Unfortunately, pragmatism forces those who are more sincere to step in line at times.
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Re: Joe Lieberman Loses In Connecticut
Old 08-09-2006, 03:44 PM   #38
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Re: Joe Lieberman Loses In Connecticut

Fire Me! Your follow up posts have shown that you can think things through. I have to agree with CT - that first post of yours on this thread was obnoxious. Stick around, you can make your points without insulting (over) half of the other posters here!
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Re: Joe Lieberman Loses In Connecticut
Old 08-09-2006, 03:51 PM   #39
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Re: Joe Lieberman Loses In Connecticut

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Fire Me!* Your follow up posts have shown that you can think things through.* I have to agree with CT* - that first post of yours on this thread was obnoxious.* Stick around, you can make your points without insulting (over) half of the other posters here!
Forgive me for doing so. I could explain my reasons for doing so but it is likely going to be non-productive. This is the best I can do.

Quote:
There are many in both parties who are well meaning and sincere in there objectives and efforts. Control and power, though is exercised by a minority, who are not necessarily as sincere and honest. It is power they enjoy and power that they are after. Unfortunately, pragmatism forces those who are more sincere to step in line at times.
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Re: Joe Lieberman Loses In Connecticut
Old 08-09-2006, 04:00 PM   #40
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Re: Joe Lieberman Loses In Connecticut

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Forgive me for doing so.
Of course I'll forgive you. I'm a soft-hearted Democrat!
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