Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Re: Jury Duty
Old 10-22-2006, 08:27 AM   #41
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
donheff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 8,646
Re: Jury Duty

Quote:
Originally Posted by AltaRed
I have never been called in almost 40 years of adult life. Maybe I do not exist?
Register to vote
__________________

__________________
Every man is, or hopes to be, an Idler. -- Samuel Johnson
donheff is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Re: Jury Duty
Old 10-22-2006, 08:36 AM   #42
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
donheff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 8,646
Re: Jury Duty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumby
Since I generally represented large corporate defendants being sued by individuals or smaller companies, I wanted jurors who would use logic and reason, rather than emotion, to arrive at their decision. I wanted a juror who would not say, even subconciously, "well, he is injured and the big corporation can afford to pay, so I'll find for the plaintiff."
I served on a jury in a DC PI case. A woman's apartment building was repairing the front steps, They had orange cones and rope up to direct you around the bad section and up the side. This woman elected to step over the rope and climb the busted stairs. She feel and injured her foot "aggravating an existing bunion." I kid, you not - that is how the plaintiff's lawyer presented her case. Before the company even started its defense I was twisting in my seat wanting to send this idiot woman to jail for wasting my time. Her lawyer must have sensed the loss because he let slip the word "insurance" and a mis-trial was declared.

The company's lawyers asked the jury to stay and talk to them about our thoughts. I was stunned to see that about half of the jurors were inclined to throw at least something the woman's way -- after all she did have an injury. I said I would have stayed until hell froze over before I would let her have a thin dime. Instead she should be forced to pay for the court's and the jurors' time.

It is unbelievable what a bunch of people will throw at a goofy psuedo victim.
__________________

__________________
Every man is, or hopes to be, an Idler. -- Samuel Johnson
donheff is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Jury Duty
Old 10-22-2006, 06:01 PM   #43
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 62
Re: Jury Duty

Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107
getting a lousy 40 bucks a day on a case that lasts more than a few days is a real hardship for most people.
I got called last week, and it's only $6/day here. That just about covers the gas to get there and back, to say nothing of lunch. If I had lost wages or had to hire day care for that I'd be even more insulted.

As it was, from the 90 of us that showed up, they were unable to make a single jury.
__________________
Baxter is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Jury Duty
Old 10-22-2006, 10:24 PM   #44
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 64
Re: Jury Duty

I've only been called once in 27 years of adulthood, and DW never. We are always registered to vote, so go figure.

This reminds me of donating blood. I suspect maybe 5% of the population does 98% of the donating, another 15% have legitimate age/health exemptions, and the rest have some excuse not to.
__________________
lifeisgood is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Jury Duty
Old 10-23-2006, 08:19 AM   #45
Moderator Emeritus
Khan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pine Island, Florida
Posts: 6,868
Send a message via AIM to Khan
Re: Jury Duty

I've been called 10 or so times over the last 28 years in this town, both for county and city.

Most times I called the day before and was told not to come in.

Several times I went to the courthouse and it was settled without a trial.

Once a case actually went to trial, but they had a full jury before they got to me.

City wouldn't be too bad, as they are only a mile and a half from my house; but county is 15 miles.
__________________
"Knowin' no one nowhere's gonna miss us when we're gone..."
Khan is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Jury Duty
Old 10-23-2006, 08:52 AM   #46
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,134
Re: Jury Duty

Quote:
Originally Posted by donheff
Register to vote
In this state there was a concern people were not registering to vote to avoid being called for jury duty. The state driver's license roll is now the source of jury notices.

I've only been called for duty three times in the last 35 years, and two of those were cancelled before I had to show up. The only time I actually had to go in I sat around all day but I wasn't selected...for a jury that is. I called home at lunch and DW told me we gotten a letter from the IRS saying they were auditing our tax return. No, I didnít have a nice day...
__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Jury Duty
Old 10-23-2006, 10:10 PM   #47
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,555
Re: Jury Duty

I have never been called and I am 53 yrs old. My 28 year old son just received his notice for jury duty and it is his second time. I have always been registered to vote also.
__________________
Dreamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Jury Duty
Old 10-25-2006, 09:02 PM   #48
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: In the fog of San Francisco
Posts: 241
Re: Jury Duty

I was on a Superior Court trial that lasted 5 weeks, and I found it very informative.

I suspect most people think that that every bit of evidence is dragged out and thrown down in front of the jury, but it quickly becomes clear that a big part of what the judge does is "manage" the trial. Since they only have X amount of time for the trial (other people want to go to court too it seems ) it appears they get together and decide where to make the cut on evidence/witnesses, and anything that doesn't rise to that level never gets introduced in court.

The jury seemed to be pretty reasonable, and most people pulled their weight. I know that is not always the case, and my sweetheart was on one where there was a juror who started out with the "how much are we going to pay him?" line. "We haven't established that he has a valid claim. " "But he was hurt, he needs to get something" kind of deal.

The biggest lesson I took away was to do everything in my power to avoid ever being dragged into court. Five different eye-witnesses who were within 15 feet will give six different stories, and trying to decipher the testimony of dueling "board certified" medical experts gets pretty hard to do when they disagree on almost everything.

cheers,
Michael
__________________
Michael Moore is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Jury Duty
Old 10-26-2006, 09:00 AM   #49
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,798
Re: Jury Duty

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Other Michael
I was on a Superior Court trial that lasted 5 weeks, and I found it very informative.

I suspect most people think that that every bit of evidence is dragged out and thrown down in front of the jury, but it quickly becomes clear that a big part of what the judge does is "manage" the trial. Since they only have X amount of time for the trial (other people want to go to court too it seems ) it appears they get together and decide where to make the cut on evidence/witnesses, and anything that doesn't rise to that level never gets introduced in court.

The jury seemed to be pretty reasonable, and most people pulled their weight. I know that is not always the case, and my sweetheart was on one where there was a juror who started out with the "how much are we going to pay him?" line. "We haven't established that he has a valid claim. " "But he was hurt, he needs to get something" kind of deal.

The biggest lesson I took away was to do everything in my power to avoid ever being dragged into court. Five different eye-witnesses who were within 15 feet will give six different stories, and trying to decipher the testimony of dueling "board certified" medical experts gets pretty hard to do when they disagree on almost everything.

cheers,
Michael
That's one of the reasons I quit as a police officer. I was tired of court being nothing more than a show with little emphasis placed on guilt or innocence.
__________________
You don't want to work. You want to live like a king, but the big bad world don't owe you a thing. Get over it--The Eagles
lets-retire is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Jury Duty
Old 10-26-2006, 09:29 PM   #50
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: In the fog of San Francisco
Posts: 241
Re: Jury Duty

Guilt or innocence gets decided by the jury, doesn't it?

Each side is going to make the best presentation of their case that they can. The jury can ONLY go on what is put before them. If one side or the other has an idiot for legal counsel (and I recall several of the attorneys having their choke chains yanked pretty sharply by the judge when they got too rabid) they are possibly going to suffer for it.

But since trial by combat doesn't seem to be a 100% sure way of proving who is right, and dunking people in a pond doesn't seem too accurate either (she's a witch! No, she's a duck!) it looks like we are probably stuck with a system that is less than optimum but still better than the alternatives.

One of the jerk attorneys was high-dollar corporate counsel, so just having buckets of money to throw at the case doesn't make it a sure thing.

As a peace officer, were you more concerned that the guilty weren't being punished, based on the assumption that they wouldn't have been charged unless they were guilty?

That's not meant as a slam on peace officers - I've had several as neighbors and friends. But I think every group has a tendency to presume the other group memebers are more worthy of support than "outsiders". That's just human nature.

Are there bad people who are criminals? Are there also bad people who are in law enforcement? I think the answer to both is yes, though hopefully the number in law enforcement is a lot lower than in the criminal class.

But it seems like we don't have to go searching too hard to find proven cases of malfeasance/corruption in those that are being entrusted by the public to enforce and uphold the law as written. It is sad that ends up making John and Jane Public suspicious of the next cop that stops them, but the police force is made up of fallable humans, and many of them are under a lot higher level of stress that may prove the straw that breaks the back.

I'd much rather have the current court set up than a lynch mob. A "the peace officer is always right" rule would seem to be a recipe for disaster (and I think probably can be shown to not be realistic without too much googling).

It would be really cool if we could put everyone under a truth spell and they'd spill not only the truth as they saw it, but the actual "Truth". But that seems unlikely, and the "7 people saw something and there are 7 stories about it" is a pretty standard Psych 101 example of how different people perceive things differently. And when a trial comes along 3 years after something happens, and everyone is expected to have perfect recall of something that probably largely faded from memory within a couple of months, well . . . . .

cheers,
Michael
__________________
Michael Moore is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Jury Duty
Old 10-26-2006, 09:48 PM   #51
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Re: Jury Duty

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Other Michael
Guilt or innocence gets decided by the jury, doesn't it?
Well......no.
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Jury Duty
Old 10-26-2006, 10:40 PM   #52
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: In the fog of San Francisco
Posts: 241
Re: Jury Duty

No? I'm pretty sure that as foreman of the jury we were the ones that returned the innocent or guilty determination.

It may be that you are saying that those providing the information to the jury are the ones that make the determination, but that information is still subject to review by the jury, and if it doesn't "make the case" it can be rejected.

cheers,
Michael
__________________
Michael Moore is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Jury Duty
Old 10-26-2006, 11:42 PM   #53
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Re: Jury Duty

I'm saying that the jury gives their opinion based on the evidence presented. Whether the accused actually committed the transgression is another matter altogether.

The outcome is often highly disputed. Just ask John Allen Muhammad.
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Jury Duty
Old 10-27-2006, 12:15 AM   #54
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: In the fog of San Francisco
Posts: 241
Re: Jury Duty

Do you have a reasonable alternative in light of the apparent absence of the Truth Spell?

If we had access to an Omniscope that let us look back in time and view what actually happened (with multiple highly-trained people viewing and cross-checking their perceptions) we might come close to a 100% correct decision rate.

But in the absence of that, we've got to work with what we've got. In some cases, possibly many cases, what we've got is less than accurate information.

The impression I had from the trial I was on was that no one at the incident(s) was taking down notes expecting that they'd be making a deposition in a couple of years. Having an Omniscope would have cut the duration of that trial quite significantly. In fact, there'd be no need for a trial - you'd have people view the occurance and if a majority of the trained evaluators agreed on what happened, that would be all that was needed.

The current system may suck occasionally (actually that is probably undoubtedly sucks), and possibly or probably even more often than that.

What's the alternative?

Shucks, I can remember as a kid that I couldn't help looking guilty even when falsely accused of doing something.

There's going to be a margin of error in anything that is done. And that is a good reason for not rushing out and executing people, since it is far from unknown for "convicted killers" to later be exonerated.

Would it be horrible to have both innocent people in prison, and guilty people on the streets? I won't argue otherwise. I'd rather have a few more guilty people set free and fewer innocent people sent up. But if you want 100% accuracy we might as well just abolish the justice system entirely, as I don't think it is likely to happen.

cheers,
Michael
__________________
Michael Moore is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Jury Duty
Old 10-27-2006, 06:42 AM   #55
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,798
Re: Jury Duty

Michael--What I'm saying is in a trial the two lawyers are attempting to have the jury believe thier side of the story. Most times the only way to do that is theatrics. I do believe the court system is the best there is right now, but it is very far from perfect, normally the bad guy will be set free if they take it to trial. The few times I have seen this to not be true have been in juvenile court where the judge is the jury.

Do you know how many times I've been asked questions on the stand that are only marginally relevant to the case? Things like, 'She answered the cell phone? Where was the phone before she picked it up?' Does it really matter where her phone was when she was talking to me about a crime that happened 30 minutes prior? But because she answered it and I don't know where the phone was, my memory of the interview and my actions on scene cannot be trusted. Therefore I am an unreliable witness. The same goes for the witness who are not normally exposed to viewing the highly stressful incidents and forget major portions of the incident. How did the guy get to the curb? I don't remember. You were looking right at it? Yes. How can you not remember? I don't remember.' I've seen it more times than I care to remember. It doesn't matter that the guy getting to the curb is irrelevant to him beating the crap out of someone in the middle of the street.
__________________

__________________
You don't want to work. You want to live like a king, but the big bad world don't owe you a thing. Get over it--The Eagles
lets-retire is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Anybody served on a jury? martyb Other topics 19 05-05-2007 10:55 PM
Former Military Social Security credits - interesting Fireup2020 FIRE and Money 1 04-10-2007 10:24 PM
Federal Court Jury Summons WanderALot Other topics 41 01-14-2007 12:17 PM
Mark Fuhrman: Grand Jury Should Probe Terri Schiavo Case Art Other topics 64 07-10-2005 11:08 PM
Young Dreamer Reporting for Duty PennyThoughts Young Dreamers 12 08-29-2003 11:48 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:22 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.