Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Re: Justice Scalia on C-Span
Old 02-22-2006, 03:21 PM   #21
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,387
Re: Justice Scalia on C-Span

Quote:
Originally Posted by justin
To be fair,

"Scalia criticized those who believe in what he called the "living Constitution."

"That's the argument of flexibility and it goes something like this: The Constitution is over 200 years old and societies change. It has to change with society, like a living organism, or it will become brittle and break."

"But you would have to be an idiot to believe that," Scalia said. "The Constitution is not a living organism, it is a legal document. It says something and doesn't say other things."
IMO, it's pretty hard to argue with his position. Clearly the purpose of the Constitution was and is to act as drag anchor, to keep certain things from happening or at least to slow them down.

Read the Federalist Papers- most framers feared that America would go the way of most societies and lose sight of principles which they thought were a necessity for a civil society.

The world is full of examples that show that this was not an idle fear.

Ha
__________________

__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is online now   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Re: Justice Scalia on C-Span
Old 02-22-2006, 03:32 PM   #22
Moderator Emeritus
Martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: minnesota
Posts: 13,212
Re: Justice Scalia on C-Span

To be fair. . .

Scalia has voted for expansive interpretation of the commerce clause. The commerce clause was never interpreted so broadly in the early years of our country.

Most recently, Scalia voted to uphold federal law prosecution of those involved in presribing or providing medical marijuana as allowed by state law, and he dissented in a case where the court upheld Oregon's assisted suicide law. Both of these cases were commerce clause cases where the federal government was trying to usurp state law.

I think all this stuff about "strict" construction and what the framers intended is a bunch of political B.S. The constitution says what it says. The major trouble is in applying the consitution to modern day situations.

__________________

__________________
.


No more lawyer stuff, no more political stuff, so no more CYA

Martha is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Justice Scalia on C-Span
Old 02-22-2006, 03:53 PM   #23
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,387
Re: Justice Scalia on C-Span

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha
To be fair. . .

Scalia has voted for expansive interpretation of the commerce clause.* The commerce clause was never interpreted so broadly in the early years of our country.
Martha, you are likely correct in this. I was only commenting on his referenced statement, not his actual behavior. Though I agree that behavior matters more than the BS that accompanies it.

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is online now   Reply With Quote
Re: Justice Scalia on C-Span
Old 02-22-2006, 04:20 PM   #24
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,005
Re: Justice Scalia on C-Span

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha
Most recently, Scalia voted to uphold federal law prosecution of those involved in presribing or providing medical marijuana as allowed by state law, and he dissented in a case where the court upheld Oregon's assisted suicide law. Both of these cases were commerce clause cases where the federal government was trying to usurp state law.
Clearly, these were both commerce clause cases where Scalia was trying to interpret the original intent of the commerce clause to give the federal government regulatory power when appropriate (in the medical marijuana case) but not when it was inappropriate (such as in the assisted suicide case). The founding fathers clearly meant for one to be covered by the commerce clause, but not the other (this is sarcasm, by the way).

Stare decisis, as long as it supports your position

You're probably a dirty card-holding American Constitution Society member aren't you?
__________________
justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Justice Scalia on C-Span
Old 02-22-2006, 04:28 PM   #25
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,149
Re: Justice Scalia on C-Span

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha
Scalia has voted for expansive interpretation of the commerce clause. The commerce clause was never interpreted so broadly in the early years of our country.
Good grief, I'm having a flashback to my Con Law classes in the 60's. Maybe I did smoke some of that stuff back then, but don't remember it. Or I lied on the poll. Or I'm attempting to strictly interpret what our founding moderator intended... 8)

__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Justice Scalia on C-Span
Old 02-22-2006, 04:29 PM   #26
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,005
Re: Justice Scalia on C-Span

Con Law. My 2nd lowest grade in law school. Last place went to Ethics 8)
__________________
justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Justice Scalia on C-Span
Old 02-22-2006, 05:31 PM   #27
Moderator Emeritus
Martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: minnesota
Posts: 13,212
Re: Justice Scalia on C-Span

Quote:
Originally Posted by justin
Con Law. My 2nd lowest grade in law school. Last place went to Ethics 8)
Got an A in Con law. Took the final doped up on codiene after suffering a kidney stone. And I smoked a jay the night before.
__________________
.


No more lawyer stuff, no more political stuff, so no more CYA

Martha is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Justice Scalia on C-Span
Old 02-22-2006, 05:35 PM   #28
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 524
Re: Justice Scalia on C-Span

Scalia is refering to the philosophy that Justice Breyer calls 'Active Liberty'. I'd like Scalia to explain what 'Arms', 'Liberty' and 'Equal Protection' mean. I think he's on the wrong side of many issues, most recently the Texas law prohibiting private homesexual sex among consenting adults, and Oregon's assisted suicide law. Regarding the Texas law, Scalia likes refer to the 'culture wars' and gay groups/agenda. What is it about individual rights and liberty that he doesn't understand?
__________________
JB is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Justice Scalia on C-Span
Old 02-22-2006, 05:39 PM   #29
Dryer sheet aficionado
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 29
Re: Justice Scalia on C-Span

Quote:
Originally Posted by justin
To be fair,

"Scalia criticized those who believe in what he called the "living Constitution."

"But you would have to be an idiot to believe that," Scalia said. "The Constitution is not a living organism, it is a legal document. It says something and doesn't say other things."

Proponents of the living constitution want matters to be decided "not by the people, but by the justices of the Supreme Court."
The very definition of a hypocrite - one that has the gall to insult others for something one preaches or does.

Take the Oregon assisted suicide law that Scalia wanted struck down. *Wasn't it a "matter decided by the people" via referendum, as opposed to being "decided by the Justices of the Supreme Court" as Scalia wanted?*

Let's face it - the Constitution's text can only cover so much literal ground. *To apply it to thousands of cases requires (gasp!) human interpretation of its text and unavoidable personal bias. *

To claim otherwise is like ... claiming one's sh*t don't stink. * *
__________________
vinhmen is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Justice Scalia on C-Span
Old 02-22-2006, 10:05 PM   #30
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 388
Re: Justice Scalia on C-Span

I agree with Martha. There is no such thing as a strict constructionist. There are only those who strictly construe the Consitution to fit their particular bias. I am, however, okay with that, because it is more honest than deluding ourselves with the notion that we can discern what the founding fathers really meant. And what difference does it make anyway? The Constitution was never meant to be absolute truth. It was a statement of fundamental principles reached after a series of debates and compromises in the 1700s. Interpretaion was inevitable and probably desireable.

setab
__________________
I told you I'd taunt you a second time.
setab is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Justice Scalia on C-Span
Old 02-23-2006, 11:27 AM   #31
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
mickeyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Texas~29N/98W
Posts: 5,884
Re: Justice Scalia on C-Span

When discussing the Consttiution, we need to remind ourselves that this documant was drawn up by relatively uneducated folks, many of them being farmers (yes, farmer framers). What kind of document would current farmers and printers and surveyers be able to draw up?
__________________
Part-Owner of Texas

Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. Groucho Marx

In dire need of: faster horses, younger woman, older whiskey, more money.
mickeyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Justice Scalia on C-Span
Old 02-23-2006, 11:33 AM   #32
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: Justice Scalia on C-Span

Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeyd
When discussing the Consttiution, we need to remind ourselves that this documant was drawn up by relatively uneducated folks, many of them being farmers (yes, farmer framers). What kind of document would current farmers and printers and surveyers be able to draw up?
Uhh...actually most of them were lawyers, with several teachers and doctors thrown in. A few were 'farmers' or 'merchants'.

Most were quite well educated even by modern perspective.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Justice Scalia on C-Span
Old 02-23-2006, 11:52 AM   #33
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
HFWR's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lawn chair in Texas
Posts: 12,964
Re: Justice Scalia on C-Span

The Commerce Clause has certainly been streched beyond recognition. What was the Ga. case where a motel was discriminating against "African Americans"? It was found unconstitutioanl on gorunds that it violated the Commerce Clause. Good decision, wrong amendment...
__________________

__________________
Have Funds, Will Retire

...not doing anything of true substance...
HFWR is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
CD's at Pentagon and Justice Gearhead Jim FIRE and Money 17 03-29-2007 08:34 AM
Retire early, live longer dory36 Other topics 6 02-27-2004 09:36 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:35 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.