Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Re: Kids & College
Old 02-12-2007, 03:29 PM   #21
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 509
Re: Kids & College

That's what my Dad said, too!

And I agree. I'm also open to adjusting/adapting over time if I see that certain things we're doing aren't working for our son.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
We'll have to check back on that philosophy during the teen years!
__________________

__________________
Peaceful_Warrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Re: Kids & College
Old 02-12-2007, 03:31 PM   #22
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Moemg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sarasota,fl.
Posts: 10,031
Re: Kids & College

Both my children wanted to go to college and I agreed to pay for four years as long as they applied themselves .I refused to pay for graduate school but I ended up contributing anyway .Best money I ever spent .My daughter is a college professor and my son is an engineer .
__________________

__________________
Moemg is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Kids & College
Old 02-12-2007, 03:34 PM   #23
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,375
Re: Kids & College

Quote:
Originally Posted by scrinch
We're not forcing our kids to go to college, but we have raised them with the unspoken expectation that they would. So far DD#1 is a sophomore in a state university, and DD#2 is a sophomore in high school with a 4+ GPA who wants to attend Stanford. DS is in 6th grade and has expressed the desire to be a homeless person because they don't have to work and don't have to pay taxes. : We will pay for the first 4 years of college. If it takes longer for the BS/BA, then they have to find alternate funding.
Scrinch: Daughter #l is probably going to San Francisco State, Daughter #2 wants to go to Stanford. (Batten down the hatches).

You should be alright with your son, but he'll probably change his mind and decide that being homeless isn't such a good idea.

In any case good luck, and if you can afford the first 4 years of college for the 3 of them, that's a wonderful thing.
__________________
Jarhead* is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Kids & College
Old 02-12-2007, 03:41 PM   #24
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Telly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,448
Re: Kids & College

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moemg
Both my children wanted to go to college and I agreed to pay for four years as long as they applied themselves .I refused to pay for graduate school but I ended up contributing anyway .Best money I ever spent .My daughter is a college professor and my son is an engineer .
I just wanted to pop in here and say, "ya done good, Mom!" Great job!
__________________
-- Telly, the D-I-Y guy --
Two fools dancing on the hands of time
Telly is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Kids & College
Old 02-12-2007, 04:02 PM   #25
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North Bay
Posts: 1,026
Re: Kids & College

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarhead*
Scrinch: Daughter #l is probably going to San Francisco State, Daughter #2 wants to go to Stanford. (Batten down the hatches).
Cal Poly SLO. My mother and grandmother went to Stanford, so it is a family thing, but the $ side of me says (guiltily) that Berkeley and Davis are just as good!
__________________
scrinch is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Kids & College
Old 02-12-2007, 04:28 PM   #26
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
bright eyed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,891
Re: Kids & College

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peaceful_Warrior
I couldn't agree more. Part of the Unschooling for us is ensuring that we continue to encourage our child to learn in the ways that interest them the most. And that may mean that they go to public/private school, maybe go to college, trade school, or whatever else.

Basically, I'm not opposed to public schooling. I just am not going to go that way unless its what our child chooses. Also, as part of Unschooling / Unconditional Parenting, if our child does want to go to school then we have decided that we won't praise/punish for grades, nor will we make our child go to school on any given day.

In that way, we are applying the unschooling principles to school as well. In that way, it's a lot like when I turned 18 and my Dad said, "Son - if you move out, you wouldn't have a curfew. So now that you're 18, you don't have a curfew even while living at home."

Seems obvious and makes sense, but basically with education it's the same thing. "I wouldn't give you grades, and I wouldn't make you sit at worksheets or stay in a certain place while you learn something, so if you choose to go to school I won't expect those things from you there either."

For me it really is about letting them do what they want, where they learn the best, and trust that they know what is best long-term for them.
Hi PW,

i love alternative ideas and do think public schools, pedagogy etc need a very big shake up

but when will your child choose to go to public vs. others? kindergarten?

also, aren't there some things in life that kids will have to learn to do even if they are not interested? like chores etc...there are many things in adult life we all have to do that do not give us pleasure or enjoyment but we have to do them...

how does the unschooling approach deal with those?

for example, my daughter goes to dance class. there were many times in the beginning where she didn't want to go every week, but i thought it was important for her to go and learn that you don't bail because you'd rather do something else...but perhaps there are other unexplored consequences to that line of thinking? just curious how the boundaries are set up in this system.

i am also a fan of attachment parenting and have used it loosely as a guide with my little ones - but i have also seen it misinterpreted and used by parents to get run over by their kids - also heard of "child led parenting" which i think is questionable...

so i do understand a ton of whether any approach works is in the implementation and it sounds like you are doing a great deal of research to understand it all...

and if anything, you are brave for trying something out of the box! it's easier to follow the script...
__________________
If i think of something clever to say, i'll put it here...
bright eyed is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Kids & College
Old 02-12-2007, 05:01 PM   #27
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 509
Re: Kids & College

Quote:
Originally Posted by bright eyed
but when will your child choose to go to public vs. others? kindergarten?
Good question, and I can't possibly answer that question because I don't know if/when they'll want that. However, there have been many unschoolers who have chosen to go to school anywhere from Kindergarten on up through High School.

Some of them stick to public school, some of them turn right back around and go home.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bright eyed
also, aren't there some things in life that kids will have to learn to do even if they are not interested? like chores etc...there are many things in adult life we all have to do that do not give us pleasure or enjoyment but we have to do them... how does the unschooling approach deal with those?
Good question. That tends to fall more into the "Unconditional Parenting" heading than "Unschooling." Unschooling is primarily about the education aspect of things... so a child would observe me doing chores and thus learn how to do them simply by watching (and doing, if they wanted to).

However, from the "Unconditional Parenting" direction of things, this is in fact a very challenging question. To keep it really simple, our son will be offered the opportunity to help around with chores and other things rather than us telling him which ones he will do.

Chances are, he'll find some that he actually enjoys. Take for example my nephew. He is being raised very traditionally, and yet ever since we can remember he just *loves* vacuuming. He'll do it anytime, any place. He also enjoys helping out around the house as well.

I would hope that we as parents will set the example that chores can be enjoyable (maybe by singing or dancing while we do them?), and therefore our children will enjoy it as well. Maybe they will want to "be like Daddy?" And it's also possible that our children will see the way Mom & Dad help each other out, and help them out, and they will want to help us out.

But if they don't, then it's OK. My wife and I can handle all the chores around here just fine.

However, when our son decides he wants to move out and live his own life, he'll learn either how to do things that need to get done, or he won't. But either way, it'll be his life, lived the way he wants, and still with unconditional love from us as parents regardless of what he chooses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bright eyed
for example, my daughter goes to dance class. there were many times in the beginning where she didn't want to go every week, but i thought it was important for her to go and learn that you don't bail because you'd rather do something else...but perhaps there are other unexplored consequences to that line of thinking? just curious how the boundaries are set up in this system.
Again, this is really an "Unconditional Parenting" topic... not Unschooling. I just want to be clear so that the two topics are understood separately from themselves.

That said, again this is a good question. From what I've read, a lot of parents will say something like, "Well you don't have to go if you don't want to. But how about we go watch? And maybe you can put on your dance clothes underneath, just in case you decide to join in."

Most of the time, once the child is there they will want to join in. (This is a real-life example from one of the email groups I am on).

I practiced martial arts for many years. When I was a Yellow belt, I "couldn't" learn a particular form that I needed to know for my next test and I wanted to quit martial arts. My father said to me, "Well if you learn the form, then you can quit. Deal?" I eventually learned it, and I continued on in martial arts to get two 2nd degree black belts and compete internationally.

However, I would not have posed the same thing to my own son. Instead I would have a talk about it with him to see what was genuinely troubling him about this, and I would encourage him to continue training in martial arts if he enjoyed it, and not focus on the test (unless that's what his goals were).

All in all, a lot of it is about communicating with children and respecting them as adults. From that, they also learn to follow their hearts, to be happy, and to respect everyone else as adults as well (since they don't see any difference between how we treat each other and how we treat him).

Quote:
Originally Posted by bright eyed
i am also a fan of attachment parenting and have used it loosely as a guide with my little ones - but i have also seen it misinterpreted and used by parents to get run over by their kids - also heard of "child led parenting" which i think is questionable...

so i do understand a ton of whether any approach works is in the implementation and it sounds like you are doing a great deal of research to understand it all...

and if anything, you are brave for trying something out of the box! it's easier to follow the script...
Ah yes, and we can add "Attachment Parenting" to it as well. Our son is with us most of the time, and he co-sleeps with us most nights. However, in order to also give him a sense of balance, several times a day we put him down for a nap instead of having him fall asleep in our arms, in a carrier, etc.

In regards to Unconditional Parenting, you bring up some good points. However, like you say there is a difference between children running over people and not. In those kinds of situations, there are a lot of things that need to be addressed.

For example, if the child is too young to reason with... how do we respect their "decisions"? Usually, a distraction or redirection works well. Child just painted all over the walls? Give them some painting and stuff to paint on and redirect them. Child is being obnoxious, find something that distracts them that they enjoy.

As the child gets older, reasoning and discussion can be invaluable. For example, how does somebody under "Unconditional Parenting" teach a child to share... if they don't want to?

Well, by discussion. Find out why the child doesn't want to share, and see if any of those roadblocks can be cleared. Also, reverse the situation and ask them... if they were at the other friends' house and that friend said my son couldn't play with a favorite toy, how would my son feel?

By encouraging children to reflect on their actions in a humane and compassionate way, we can help them build confidence and respect within themselves, while simultaneously finding ways to value their independence and individuality.

Ultimately what I like best about Unconditional Parenting is that its goal is to raise children to be confident in themselves, and not base their self-worth on what other people think (not even Mom and Dad).

That seems to be a rarity these days.
__________________
Peaceful_Warrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Kids & College
Old 02-12-2007, 05:10 PM   #28
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
bright eyed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,891
Re: Kids & College

Thanks PW -

a very thoughtful response - seems your son is a lucky boy!

i have seen the other side of too much discipline w/ my step son who was reared very traditionally (lots of stern discipline and just do it because dad said so) and it took years of work to get him to learn how to think for himself (he couldn't even tell you what he wanted to eat) and get some common sense! so i see the idea behind the unconditional parenting etc.

good luck to you!!!

and btw - we just got our 4 year old to sleep on a mattress on the floor (well, she's been down there about a year and change) since we have a 1 year old in the bed - we had to get a king size bed just to be comfy! but you know what? the four year old has on her own that she would like sleep in her own room once in a while and my jaw dropped since that was what i had "heard" about attachment parenting, that they would leave on their own - but i was starting to have my doubts! haha
__________________
If i think of something clever to say, i'll put it here...
bright eyed is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Kids & College
Old 02-12-2007, 05:33 PM   #29
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,155
Re: Kids & College

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peaceful_Warrior
For me it really is about letting them do what they want, where they learn the best, and trust that they know what is best long-term for them.
I think the above pretty much sums up your belief.

I was 29 years old when my first kid was born. I still didn't know what I really wanted, I had a very vague idea of the future even at that time. Fortunately, things work out for me, but boy, do I wish for some wiser people to be there to show me the way, forcefully if necessary. I am where I am now not because I knew what I wanted, I just stumbled on the correct path.

I sincerely wish the best for your son. But I certainly don't wish to have a father who thinks I can make the right decision for myself at such a young age.

__________________
Sam is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Kids & College
Old 02-12-2007, 07:25 PM   #30
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
2B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 4,330
Re: Kids & College

I've recently finished paying for my third and last kid's college career. The rules were the same. You had to major in a "career" and it didn't matter what it was. You had to explain to me what you were planning to do to make a living. I have 1 engineer, 1 sales and 1 teacher.

They were awarded the cost of tuition/fees and a top dorm and meal plan. Any scholarships were their's to keep. Their books and personal expenses were to be on their own dime. All but my last did that. She scammed me to get her books and a portion of her personal expenses. She did go summers so I had some benefit with her graduating a semester early.

It's a challenge but it all came down to "what do you want to be when you grow up?"
__________________
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane -- Marcus Aurelius
2B is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Kids & College
Old 02-12-2007, 08:45 PM   #31
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,615
Re: Kids & College

I guess my parents were very liberal with me, they always let me make my own choices. For example, I could choose to do my chores as they requested, or I could sit in my room until hell froze over. It was always my choice. This is good preparation for life: You'll often get a choice between two unpleasant things (e.g. go to work or starve) and have to pick one. If a parent sets things up so the child can choose to do an unpleasant thing (maybe school) and a fun thing (hang around the house today), then I'd expect the kid to do the fun thing. I would not expect the child to make a decison that was necessarily in their long-term interest. And, after doing this for awhile, I wouldn't expect him to be prepared for the choices the real world offers.
__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Kids & College
Old 02-13-2007, 10:13 AM   #32
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,155
Re: Kids & College

Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem
I guess my parents were very liberal with me, they always let me make my own choices. For example, I could choose to do my chores as they requested, or I could sit in my room until hell froze over. It was always my choice. This is good preparation for life: You'll often get a choice between two unpleasant things (e.g. go to work or starve) and have to pick one.
Excellent "liberal" parents! Consider yourself lucky.
__________________
Sam is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Kids & College
Old 02-13-2007, 10:50 AM   #33
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
TromboneAl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 11,197
Re: Kids & College

Here are some random thoughts (DD is now a sophomore).

1. A high-priced big name college won't necessarily give your kid a better education than a state school.

2. Travel expenses will be significant if the college is far from home.

3. Your child will become an alien creature around this time.

4. Carefully document any discussions about finances, and give your kid a copy.

5. Enforce a budget.

__________________
Al
TromboneAl is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Kids & College
Old 02-13-2007, 11:13 AM   #34
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,155
Re: Kids & College

Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl
1. A high-priced big name college won't necessarily give your kid a better education than a state school.
I keep hearing this general comment, and I agree that there's some merit to it. But there's so much more behind this generalization.

UT Austin and Texas A&M are the best two state schools in Texas. But to say that they provide the same education as MIT, or CalTech is such a stretch. Even UC Berkeley does not compare well, imo.

__________________
Sam is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Kids & College
Old 02-13-2007, 11:29 AM   #35
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
TromboneAl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 11,197
Re: Kids & College

I agree. It depends on a lot of things. Name recognition plays a big part, and I think there's at least one job I got based on the well-known college I went to.

In my daughter's case (Washington University in St. Louis), I haven't been convinced that the higher price tag has been worth it.
__________________
Al
TromboneAl is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Kids & College
Old 02-13-2007, 11:43 AM   #36
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,155
Re: Kids & College

You are in California, right?

If so, then I think you're right. UC Berkeley is at about the same level, but much cheaper for residents.

OTOH, if the cost is about the same (for a non-resident), I think Washington U is a better choice.
__________________
Sam is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Kids & College
Old 02-13-2007, 11:45 AM   #37
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
wabmester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,459
Re: Kids & College

Didn't somebody point out that nobody pays list price at, say, Harvard? I think their endowment is large enough to give every student a free ride, but they have to maintain a high list price to reinforce their branding.

FWIW, I went to a UC school with a great beach, and I feel I got the best of both worlds.
__________________
wabmester is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Kids & College
Old 02-13-2007, 12:01 PM   #38
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,155
Re: Kids & College

I am waiting for the final financial packages from various schools. Until I see the actual numbers, I'm still working on the assumption that private schools are more expensive.
__________________
Sam is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Kids & College
Old 02-13-2007, 05:23 PM   #39
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
2B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 4,330
Re: Kids & College

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
UT Austin and Texas A&M are the best two state schools in Texas. But to say that they provide the same education as MIT, or CalTech is such a stretch. Even UC Berkeley does not compare well, imo.
Having managed and worked with engineers from all of the schools you mentioned, their skill levels were not determined by where they went. I will say that MIT beats the living crap out of a lot of very academically advanced high schoolers. They charge them a small fortune for the privelege of having it done. Their earning power in industry is no different. Some MIT grads do get some interesting opportunities that are less traditional. I personally don't think its worth the money and there are no scholarships from what I have been told.
__________________
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane -- Marcus Aurelius
2B is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Kids & College
Old 02-13-2007, 05:40 PM   #40
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Moemg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sarasota,fl.
Posts: 10,031
Re: Kids & College

[. Their earning power in industry is no different. Some MIT grads do get some interesting opportunities that are less traditional. I personally don't think its worth the money and there are no scholarships from what I have been told.
[/quote]


The opportunities my son was offered as an MIT grad were amazing . All the top firms recruit there . Mit also gives out scholarships and large grants .The bill for MIT was less than Rutgers ( our state school ).
__________________

__________________
Moemg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Kids, college, and frustrations..... spark0506 Other topics 14 12-18-2006 09:36 PM
College plans - for somebody else's kids unclemick Other topics 11 07-03-2006 11:51 AM
College savings and "fairness" malakito Other topics 23 03-03-2005 06:11 PM
ER Homestretch vs. Kids in College airstyle Other topics 6 02-16-2004 12:11 PM
College / financial aid farmerEd FIRE and Money 33 01-28-2004 03:16 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:22 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.