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Re: Kids & College
Old 02-13-2007, 07:08 PM   #41
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Re: Kids & College

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Originally Posted by Moemg
The opportunities my son was offered as an MIT grad were amazing . All the top firms recruit there .
MIT provides a wonderful education, and you deserve a lot of credit for raising a kid that can take advantage of the opportunities available there.

In general the top firms recruit at all of the top schools. As an electrical engineering graduate from Texas A&M, I was flown all over the country on a number of extravagantly luxurious plant trips, often by Lear jet with inflight video, bar, luxury accomodations, and so on. Recruiters showered us with expensive meals and gifts.

I do think that a degree from MIT has a certain cachet in comparison, though....
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Re: Kids & College
Old 02-13-2007, 08:03 PM   #42
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Re: Kids & College

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Originally Posted by wab
Didn't somebody point out that nobody pays list price at, say, Harvard? I think their endowment is large enough to give every student a free ride, but they have to maintain a high list price to reinforce their branding.

FWIW, I went to a UC school with a great beach, and I feel I got the best of both worlds.
Did you attend UCSB or UCSD?
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Re: Kids & College
Old 02-13-2007, 08:07 PM   #43
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Re: Kids & College

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Originally Posted by TromboneAl
I agree. It depends on a lot of things. Name recognition plays a big part, and I think there's at least one job I got based on the well-known college I went to.

In my daughter's case (Washington University in St. Louis), I haven't been convinced that the higher price tag has been worth it.
There is no correlation between name of the school and earning over a life time. Obviously, earning is not the only factor to determine whether the school's worth. It could be the satisfaction that you went to one of the most known school (self pride).
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Re: Kids & College
Old 02-13-2007, 08:13 PM   #44
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Re: Kids & College

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Originally Posted by Moemg
[. Their earning power in industry is no different. Some MIT grads do get some interesting opportunities that are less traditional. I personally don't think its worth the money and there are no scholarships from what I have been told.



The opportunities my son was offered as an MIT grad were amazing . All the top firms recruit there . Mit also gives out scholarships and large grants .The bill for MIT was less than Rutgers ( our state school ).
I work with many MIT graduates. They are smart engineers. However, they receive the same pay as all other engineers. I went to a no-name engineering school. My first job right after graduation was $17,000 in 1978, while the starting salary for a Standford or MIT graduate was $18,000 (slightly higher).

I do agree that they are highly recruited. It might be a big deal in a tight labor market.

I do not believe MIT gives out merit scholarship. They do, however, provide financial aid (grant).
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Re: Kids & College
Old 02-13-2007, 08:34 PM   #45
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Re: Kids & College

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Originally Posted by Want2retire
MIT provides a wonderful education, and you deserve a lot of credit for raising a kid that can take advantage of the opportunities available there.

In general the top firms recruit at all of the top schools. As an electrical engineering graduate from Texas A&M, I was flown all over the country on a number of extravagantly luxurious plant trips, often by Lear jet with inflight video, bar, luxury accomodations, and so on. Recruiters showered us with expensive meals and gifts.

I do think that a degree from MIT has a certain cachet in comparison, though....
Wow, I did not receive that kind of treatment when I graduated with a BSEE in 1978. I did, however, had multiple job offers from local companies in Silicon Valley.

Texas A & M is one of the universities who is aggressively recruiting national merit scholars. They are offering scholarship in amount of $86,000. My daughter is one of national merit scholarship finalist. She has received solicitations from practically all brand-name schools, but none of which offered any merit scholarship. I guess the top-tier schools do not feel the need to attract the very best. Only schools that want to boost their rating or recognition may offer attractive merit scholarships for the highest academic students.
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Re: Kids & College
Old 02-13-2007, 08:36 PM   #46
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Re: Kids & College

Bottom line, Yes College.

Next a state school close to home.

Young adult needs to get a part time job and help with the cost of the college education.

This makes them understand they are part of the equation.

less likely to drink themselves into failing out of college .

They can take out loans.
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Re: Kids & College
Old 02-13-2007, 08:40 PM   #47
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Re: Kids & College

Both my DH and I went to college and beyond and we are planning accordingly for our kids.

We have prepaid accounts for tuition for state schools. These funds are transferrable to about 150 other schools around the country, though only at the value of the state school tuition. Our state gives scholarships to all instate students with a B average, a sport and community service (more if the average is higher) and we have small 529 plans for those pesky fees that keep rising.

But all the planning may be for nothing. Neither of my DH's two oldest sons, in the mid to late 20s, went to college. One is on track to do ok, the other sponges off his mother. You can't really know. Plan, assess their skills and interests, encourage the best direction, cross your fingers and hang on for the ride.
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Re: Kids & College
Old 02-13-2007, 09:02 PM   #48
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Re: Kids & College

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Originally Posted by newguy888
Bottom line, Yes College.

Next a state school close to home.

My daughter is more inclined to attend the state U that is only 10 miles away. The U offers a merit scholarship of $12K per year for 4 years sufficient to pay for tuition and other expenses but not enough for room and board.

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Re: Kids & College
Old 02-14-2007, 09:21 AM   #49
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Re: Kids & College

You also have to look closely at true cause and effect in some of the data you look at. It may be that the schooling affects the life outcome, or it may be that the qualities one possesses produces the outcome, and the success in schooling was a byproduct of that rather than the causative factor.

I'm still noodling over this "kids that go to preschool do better in grade school, do better in high school, do better in college" thing. I'm not sure that the preschool is the causative factor or if parents that are interested and engaged in teaching their children, that also have smart children, put them in preschool whereas parents who arent engaged in their childs learning or realize their kids are nincompoops dont bother.

Seems to me some people will only hire folks with advanced degrees from the very biggest name schools, and I do recall some "folks in the room" during hiring cycles mentioning stuff like "oooh...this guy went to xyz school!" and moving that resume to the interview pile on that basis. But I dont recall that happening too often.
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Re: Kids & College
Old 02-14-2007, 01:06 PM   #50
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Re: Kids & College

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Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny
I'm still noodling over this "kids that go to preschool do better in grade school, do better in high school, do better in college" thing.
I think that the sooner the future public-school kids get put in large groups-- as early as six months of age-- the sooner they all swap viruses and build up their immune systems. Then your kid's always at the public school, pretty healthy, and ready to learn. But those first three years were a lot of viruses.

It's probably different for homeschool.

The biggest problem in public/private/homeschool debates is that none of the data can be reproduced by independent experimentation. There are just too many variables, and you can't raise the kid once in public school followed by doing it over in homeschool.
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Re: Kids & College
Old 02-14-2007, 09:07 PM   #51
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Re: Kids & College

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Originally Posted by wab
Didn't somebody point out that nobody pays list price at, say, Harvard? I think their endowment is large enough to give every student a free ride, but they have to maintain a high list price to reinforce their branding.
This is true and people have urged them to do it - but they won't. Other ivy's like Princeton guarantee financial support to whoever they admit...
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Re: Kids & College
Old 02-14-2007, 09:11 PM   #52
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Re: Kids & College

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Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny
I'm still noodling over this "kids that go to preschool do better in grade school, do better in high school, do better in college" thing. I'm not sure that the preschool is the causative factor or if parents that are interested and engaged in teaching their children, that also have smart children, put them in preschool whereas parents who arent engaged in their childs learning or realize their kids are nincompoops dont bother.
I think it's being marketed that way because there are so many kids who are coming to kindergarten unprepared..if your mom stays at home and has a masters degree, your kid is not likely missing out compared to other kids who attend preschool...also, in california for instance, they have pushed all the standards aggressively - so what you used to learn in 1st grade is now the standard for kindergarten...making it tougher for kids from disadv'd backgrounds...some come in reading, some have never seen a book ...which leads to huge disparities throughout their whole educational experience...
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Re: Kids & College
Old 02-14-2007, 09:12 PM   #53
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Re: Kids & College

The debate whether the school system or the quality of a school plays a major contribution to one's success will always continue. I tend to believe the major factors are culture, parent involvement and desire are far more important than natural abilities. When a kid wants to succeed, he/she will eventually prevail regardless of the environment.
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Re: Kids & College
Old 02-15-2007, 07:40 AM   #54
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Re: Kids & College

Anyone here been denied a job opportunity or advancement that they were capable of handling, but didn't get it because they didn't have a college degree ?
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Re: Kids & College
Old 02-15-2007, 08:34 AM   #55
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Re: Kids & College

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Originally Posted by Empty Pockets
Anyone here been denied a job opportunity or advancement that they were capable of handling, but didn't get it because they didn't have a college degree ?
Well, obviously many professional positions require a degree (MD, lawyer, etc). One (specialized) example would be military service. All* commissioned officers must have a college degree. Advanced degrees are a major and explicit factor in promotion for all members of the military.

*With certain minor exceptions that constitute a minscule %age at certain times.
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Re: Kids & College
Old 02-15-2007, 08:58 AM   #56
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Re: Kids & College

I'm thinking more of the private sector. I realize several "professions" require a college degree, but many jobs in the private business world can be done by anyone capable of doing the job.

I was just wondering if anyone has trained their boss to do the job that they could have just as easily gotten but didn't.

I know the military requires a degree to become an officer, but it didn't always. I know a few veterans who had a knack for flying that became officers during WWII. I'm sure it changed shortly after.
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Re: Kids & College
Old 02-15-2007, 09:26 AM   #57
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Re: Kids & College

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Originally Posted by Empty Pockets
I'm thinking more of the private sector. I realize several "professions" require a college degree, but many jobs in the private business world can be done by anyone capable of doing the job.

I was just wondering if anyone has trained their boss to do the job that they could have just as easily gotten but didn't.

I know the military requires a degree to become an officer, but it didn't always. I know a few veterans who had a knack for flying that became officers during WWII. I'm sure it changed shortly after.
It's getting harder to a professional job without a degree as more companies require it. However, there are still a lot of companies that do not especially for people with a particular set of skills sought. It may be dependent on locations also. In the Twin Cities here in Minnesota, it's hard to land a professional job without one while it is much easier in the San Francisco Bay Area -- people without degrees are working as network, computer engineers, and IT managers.

The trend is disturbing. Soon we all need to have certifications, licenses, advanced degrees for even the simplest jobs. For example, you may need a certified garbage collector to land a job.

I am sure the certification or testing agencies will be happy as their business booms as demand for their services continues to rise.
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Re: Kids & College
Old 02-15-2007, 09:48 AM   #58
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Re: Kids & College

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Originally Posted by Empty Pockets
I know the military requires a degree to become an officer, but it didn't always. I know a few veterans who had a knack for flying that became officers during WWII. I'm sure it changed shortly after.
It comes & goes, especially when pilots have a short life expectancy in combat. During the deepest depths of the Vietnam War I believe there was a program to put sergeants in the cockpits.

A old shipmate was commissioned in 1997 but didn't get sent to college until 2002. He used to joke that the Navy was hoping he'd get his degree on his own before they had to spend the money.
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Re: Kids & College
Old 02-15-2007, 10:59 AM   #59
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Re: Kids & College

I've known many "0s" that were dumber than a box of rocks. I always wondered why the Military in general was so class oriented about officers having to have a college degree. Having one is absoulty no indication of your leadership skills just that you've put in your time at an institute of higher learning partaring studying. Some of the best officers I served with were LDO's and Mustangs. Their BS quotient was gennerally several notches below the other officers.

Just so you understand I did not get my BA degree until after I retired from the CG as a CWO3.

BTW the Coast Guard will still allow OCS canadates with 2 yrs service, E-5, command recomendation, and a sucessful OCT. Upon commissioning they are usullly placed in shore billits at Marine Safety Offices then offered integration at the 4 yr mark.
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Re: Kids & College
Old 02-15-2007, 11:17 AM   #60
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Re: Kids & College

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Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny
I'm still noodling over this "kids that go to preschool do better in grade school, do better in high school, do better in college" thing.
Stop your noodling and go observe some kids. Observe a group of 4-yos with no preschool. And a group at a typical daycare-style preschool. And contrast those kids with a group at a "good" preschool (your neighborhood moms should know which one that is).

You'll be blown away by the differences. Nobody can prove cause and effect (FWIW, Montessori preschools were originally designed for "special-needs" kids, not rich Einsteins), but why bet against good outcomes?
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