Killing Cash

[unclemick]

"Imagine the worldwide suffering because of crime, from drug dealing to bicycle theft. Crime that requires cash."

Umm, how exactly does eliminating cash stop bicycle theft?

Negatively speaking, I still have faith in crooks. Cash or no cash I am afraid 'they' will adapt.

I mean we had 'no beer for you' during Prohibition and then we did.

heh heh heh - AND I am moderately ticked my drive thru ATM won't go smaller than $20's and 'like's $50's.

 

[kcowan]

Younger ones vary, but alot of them are used to parents knowing where they are every second of the day, and what they are doing. Don't see anything wrong with it.

The strongest resistance seems to come from eastern europe, they still remember.

It's a lonely position to hold, favoring room for secrecy.

I am in the group that believes there is not difference. An oppressive government can find a way to track your spending. They will estimate your tips if you are a waitress.

The opposite which has happened, is you have $400,000 in cash and the govt declares the 'old' cash is worthless in 5 days and you can only change $2,000 worth of it for the 'new' currency.

Now you have practically nothing.

In Mexico, after the mid-90s devaluation, the middle class puts their equity in real estate. They want to protect themselves from the government. They rent out the properties and don't declare the income.

Cash or no cash doesn't change much of anything. And if that doesn't ease one's mind perhaps you can take heart from the fact that the all-powerful government lacks the strength to even abolish the lowly penny.

Right the key is to not let such a government get into power.

Cash still works in a power failure.

Only if the merchant has no POS device. And most cell phones will operate just fine because the carriers have battery backup.

I calculate that between 5% and 10% of my total spending is in cash. That is far more than many here on this forum, but good for me.

I pay my housekeepers in cash and I know they do not pay tax on it. In one case, I pay the amount on her credit card because she has no bank account.

To me cash is the least effective form of payment. The only place it is useful is on the bus. But I am sure that will change too.

 

[gcgang]

I use electronic payments exclusively except for my drug, gambling and extortion rackets.

 

[HadEnuff]

I calculate that between 5% and 10% of my total spending is in cash. That is far more than many here on this forum, but good for me.

I think it goes back decades to when many of us started complaining about the person in front of us in the checkout line at the supermarket. Digging into the purse or pocket for a checkbook, then slowly and carefully writing out a check for $3.95 to pay for some eggs and milk.

Since my youth, it has been anathema to me to use anything but cash for a purchase under $20, and DW grew up with the same mindset.

I've moderated that a bit, since I use a Starbucks card on my infrequent visits there, and I use Apple Pay from my iPhone, but most of the time for those small purchases I haul out the cash. Even more, I try hard to give the exact amount, because I recognize that the average young cashier is incapable of calculating change.

I use my credit card for even the smallest expenses, if they'll take it. I hate buying something for $2.16 after taxes and shoving 84 cents into my pocket which will just fall out and behind the driver seat of my car. Of course, in Europe, it won't be 84 cents, it will be more like 17.50 Euro on each occasion.

 

[HFWR]

I use electronic payments exclusively except for my drug, gambling and extortion rackets.

Wouldn't it be nice to get air miles or cash back!

 

[Meadbh]

When you are in an Italian train station and need to use the bagno, a credit card won't cut it.

 

[Texas Proud]

I calculate that between 5% and 10% of my total spending is in cash. That is far more than many here on this forum, but good for me.

I think it goes back decades to when many of us started complaining about the person in front of us in the checkout line at the supermarket. Digging into the purse or pocket for a checkbook, then slowly and carefully writing out a check for $3.95 to pay for some eggs and milk.

Since my youth, it has been anathema to me to use anything but cash for a purchase under $20, and DW grew up with the same mindset.

I've moderated that a bit, since I use a Starbucks card on my infrequent visits there, and I use Apple Pay from my iPhone, but most of the time for those small purchases I haul out the cash. Even more, I try hard to give the exact amount, because I recognize that the average young cashier is incapable of calculating change.

Unfortunately, cash is now like that checkbook was years ago...

The person has to fumble for money... then says "wait, I have change" and takes longer... or, the clerk has to count out the change etc. etc...

A swipe of the card is much faster...

 

[cooch96]

Plus it would just feel unnatural to settle bar bets or tip the dancing girls via PayPal or credit card. I mean, where would I swipe it?

 

[MRG]

Too many unintended consequences. Besides the drug money how the heck do you snort anything through a credit card?

 

[Meadbh]

Unfortunately, cash is now like that checkbook was years ago...

The person has to fumble for money... then says "wait, I have change" and takes longer... or, the clerk has to count out the change etc. etc...

A swipe of the card is much faster...

"Tap and go" (contactless payment) cards for transactions under a limit ($50 or $100) are faster than swipe cards. Use is rapidly increasing. Convenience unfortunately leads to overspending.

‘Tap and go’ credit card purchases are surging in Canada - National | Globalnews.ca

 

[braumeister]

"Tap and go" (contactless payment) cards for transactions under a limit ($50 or $100) are faster than swipe cards.

I got an Apple Watch a couple of months ago, and I love using Apple Pay with it. No need to take anything out of a pocket -- just hold the watch next to the terminal and wait about a second for the beep.

 

[Meadbh]

I got an Apple Watch a couple of months ago, and I love using Apple Pay with it. No need to take anything out of a pocket -- just hold the watch next to the terminal and wait about a second for the beep.

Am I correct in assumption that you have contactless payment credit cards in the US yet? Because if you have them, there is no need to buy an Apple Watch.

 

[Gone4Good]

The "I have nothing to hide, so the government can know everything" crowd includes my mother. Doesn't matter explaining it, it seems alot of older people have forgotten what runaway authority can do (and did do in Europe not so long ago). Younger ones vary, but alot of them are used to parents knowing where they are every second of the day, and what they are doing. Don't see anything wrong with it.

Privacy is already a thing of the past. We've happily traded it away for all the things modern technology gives us. You'd probably be amazed by how much a bot knows about the life of someone who has >1,100 posts on a personal finance message board.

Combine that with a smart phone that knows your location every minute of the day; a dozen or more "free" apps that have access to a laundry list of phone functions; facial recognition of you, your friends, and acquaintances from Facebook photos folks have happily tagged; all the other information posted by you or about you to Facebook, tweeted, instagramed, whatevered; your sexual history and proclivities via Tinder, Grindr, etc; the contents of your personal messages and texts; your Netflix viewing habits; the information you search for on Google; the pages you visit; the articles you read; the music you listen to; and on and on . . .

Privacy is so old school it's almost quaint.

 

[Music Lover]

Cash is a form of freedom. Even those who willingly choose to do everything with plastic should have some concerns about giving up cash in its entirety.

 

[braumeister]

Am I correct in assumption that you have contactless payment credit cards in the US yet? Because if you have them, there is no need to buy an Apple Watch.

I don't know the answer to that, but I would still have to take my wallet out of my pocket to use a contactless card, wouldn't I?

I have many other uses for the watch, and that's certainly not the big one.

 

[Whisper66]

Cash is a form of freedom. Even those who willingly choose to do everything with plastic should have some concerns about giving up cash in its entirety.

Never thought of it that way until your comment. There have indeed been purchases (legal) we've made with cash to avoid trackability.

Privacy is already a thing of the past. We've happily traded it away for all the things modern technology gives us. .....Privacy is already a thing of the past. We've happily traded it away for all the things modern technology gives us.

Its clear that you and I live on different planets. Much of what you are talking about can be avoided if one chooses. Yes, results in loss of convenience but not a big deal for some people depending on your priorities.

Am I correct in assumption that you have contactless payment credit cards in the US yet? Because if you have them, there is no need to buy an Apple Watch.

I haven't seen contactless payment cards used around here yet, but am aware the scammers have tools to scan our credit cards if they are near enough to them and don't have RFI protection.

I use electronic payments exclusively except for my drug, gambling and extortion rackets.

Can't say I do any illegal purchases but do use cash or check for person to person transactions (etc..paying the lawnmower guy or playing poker), small transactions where paying in cash is faster, easier than credit (no waiting for approval, less paper passing back and forth and no signature) and when online payments by cc are charged extra (college payments were like that for the colleges my kids went to) or not allowed at all yet (some of the groups I donate to online).

Unfortunately, cash is now like that checkbook was years ago...The person has to fumble for money... then says "wait, I have change" and takes longer... or, the clerk has to count out the change etc. etc...A swipe of the card is much faster...

I LOVED that commercial that got this perception widely picked up by the public. Was funny and often true. The real issue around here that I've seen is simply that the customer is either ready to pay with their chosen method of payment or they are not. I've seen just as many folks digging around for their credit cards and then having to wait several seconds for approval and then maybe have to find a second one after the first doesn't work..... When I pay with cash, I have it in hand before the bill is provided and I don't worry about exact change....just collect change and exchange into the bank when we get enough. Usually faster for me than cc so I use cash for many small purchases.

Interesting discussion, people have quite different views on payment methods.

 

[Gone4Good]

How Tide Detergent Became a Drug Currency -- New York Magazine

How about Tide detergent?

I'm dubious that huge bottles of Tide detergent are being used as currency in any meaningful way. Pretty much every article I've seen about the subject sources back to the New York Magazine article you linked. Not one article mentions what drug dealers do with the gallons of Tide they receive in exchange for vials of rocks.

Here's my guess as to what's happening and why a cashless system would mostly end this practice too . . .

There's a modestly sized black market in high priced consumer products like Tide detergent, Gillette razors, etc. Those products are targeted by thieves because they can re-sell a $20 bottle of Tide for $5 on the black market to consumers who use the products or to unscrupulous stores that re-sell them at slightly discounted prices.

And because there's already an active black market in these products there's a street price for them. Some drug dealers with connections to that black market may be willing to trade drugs for Tide because they can monetize Tide in the black market.

That system works only as long as there's a large enough black market for Tide to accommodate the demand for drugs. I don't think it's a stretch to say that the market for drugs is many, many, many times larger than the market for black market Tide. With that in mind I don't think it's a stretch to say that Tide as a currency for drugs is a vanishingly small part of the market.

And unless you increase the size of the black market, you can't increase the volume of trade denominated in bottles of Tide. There's no reason to think electronic commerce is going to increase the size of the black market.

On the contrary, it's far more likely that the black market would shrink in a cashless system because those unscrupulous store owners who monetize the majority of the stolen Tide would have no record of ever paying for their inventory. It would be easy enough to close them down.

Moreover, no one else would be able to "launder" their Tide and turn into cash either. And without an ability to turn bottles of Tide into a widely accepted from of payment it would be worthless as a currency for drugs or anything else.

Strike another victory for cashless over crime!

 

[Gone4Good]

Its clear that you and I live on different planets. Much of what you are talking about can be avoided if one chooses. Yes, results in loss of convenience but not a big deal for some people depending on your priorities.

Avoiding it is far harder than you think. If you're on-line (which you are) you've already lost the battle unless you're taking some pretty drastic measures to cover your tracks.

 

[Whisper66]

Avoiding it is far harder than you think. If you're on-line (which you are) you've already lost the battle unless you're taking some pretty drastic measures to cover your tracks.

Using cash is a good way to have privacy for specific transactions. Agree that there are clearly many other things one must address for broader privacy concerns and it's important to understand the audience you are trying to avoid as well. But that's a bit off topic I suppose...

 

[Totoro]

Privacy is already a thing of the past. We've happily traded it away for all the things modern technology gives us. You'd probably be amazed by how much a bot knows about the life of someone who has >1,100 posts on a personal finance message board.

Not happily in my case. Reluctantly. And while I'm aware of the gaping holes in the dam, I'm still not willing to just give up and open the floodgates entirely. I don't use free (ad-based) services generally as an example, with very few exceptions.

I know its a fools game. I know where we are, probably better than most. Doesn't mean I have to like it, and I try to be principled about it. The number of times I had to explain myself why I don't use whatsapp ...

I just hope we'll all have the sense to safeguard enough room for privacy to ensure diversity of opinions, protection against discrimination and possibility for dissent in the presence of overbearing authority.

I'm slightly optimistic that we'll have a minimum level in Europe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Protection_Directive#Comparison_with_U.S._data_protection_law

Just slightly though.

 

[gerntz]

And Eastern Europe is mostly a cash society....

Oh, Greece is pretty cashless. Russia too. Most of Africa.

 

[Chuckanut]

Several years ago a huge windstorm cut power to our area for several days. Those who had cash could go to the local mini-mart and buy a few needed things. Credit Cards did not work for obvious reasons.

 

[misanman]

I find that I spend less freely when I use cash. Too easy to swipe the card without thinking of the total that's adding up.

 

[MRG]

Several years ago a huge windstorm cut power to our area for several days. Those who had cash could go to the local mini-mart and buy a few needed things. Credit Cards did not work for obvious reasons.

Yes.

Back in the 90s I was doing imaging and work flow in large paper intensive back offices. Many of us deal with the same large financial and insurance companies. Those organizations are paperless in their processing but still allow customers to utilize paper forms. Can you imagine the pushback if suddenly you can't do business on paper! Those organizations knew images cost less than paper to process and archive. They also know how important backwards compatibility is to their customers.

Systems fail, paper doesn't.

 

[Sunset]

....Since my youth, it has been anathema to me to use anything but cash for a purchase under $20, and DW grew up with the same mindset.

...... but most of the time for those small purchases I haul out the cash. Even more, I try hard to give the exact amount, because I recognize that the average young cashier is incapable of calculating change.

I also am giving way to using my CC for small purchases.

Sometimes for fun, I'll over pay with cash and watch the confused cashier, example bill is $4.80 , so I pay $5.05 (I want a quarter returned). They look so surprised when the register tells them to give me a quarter.