Killing Cash

MRG said:
Yes.

Back in the 90s I was doing imaging and work flow in large paper intensive back offices. Many of us deal with the same large financial and insurance companies. Those organizations are paperless in their processing but still allow customers to utilize paper forms. Can you imagine the pushback if suddenly you can't do business on paper! Those organizations knew images cost less than paper to process and archive. They also know how important backwards compatibility is to their customers.

Systems fail, paper doesn't.
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I have CDs and DVDs and HDs that are no longer readable, and books from the 1880s that are just fine. Until we find a truly inexpensive non-volatile medium continuous backup and re-recording will be required for all this digital media. No problem for companies, governments, banks, and other live and active users, but what will happen to archives that are no longer actively maintained? Some of the oldest books have survived 500 years, the oldest photos have survived since the beginning of photography. What will happen to the photos of my cats in 500 years? I am really worried. :(
 
Interesting idea, it would reduce some types of crime. Cash is a double edged sword. Cash purchases leave no trail vs credit card info, but carrying cash makes you a little easier target than carrying credit cards. Yes, your credit card can be stolen, but it's harder to use without getting caught than cash.

And Americans can go almost cashless now, so why force others? I wouldn't surprise me if all countries go cashless eventually, but it will probably be decades, it will be interesting to watch this develop. I know I see people, mostly younger generations, who seem to charge the most insignificant purchases.
 
gerntz said:
Oh, Greece is pretty cashless. Russia too. Most of Africa.
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Unless you are making a joke about these countries (continent)....


Have not been to Greece, but Russia runs on cash... you can hardly buy anything without it.... and their ATMs distribute US dollars!!! And they do not use checks...

When I was in Egypt I traded in some money at the airport and was planning on getting more at an ATM.... well, could not find an ATM for days... and nobody took a CC... I was lucky that I was on a tour so I did not have to shell out that much cash for awhile....
 
Sunset said:
With the new chip cards you just insert into the slot :facepalm:
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Maybe this should be in the pet peeve thread....

But I HATE that they have not gotten the machines connected yet... there are too many places where they have a chip machine but it does not yet work on the chip... OR, you think you can swipe (and the machine says to swipe), but it then wants you to put the chip in the slot!!!

A pretty bad roll out of this new technology IMO...
 
cooch96 said:
Plus it would just feel unnatural to settle bar bets or tip the dancing girls via PayPal or credit card. I mean, where would I swipe it?
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Use your imagination. 😀


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum
 
I predict the euro (or ole greenback) will become very popular for grey/black market transactions in Sweden.
 
FUEGO said:
I predict the euro (or ole greenback) will become very popular for grey/black market transactions in Sweden.
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Even then, if you're a criminal who lives in Sweden you'll need to find a way to launder your euros or dollars into the electronic system if you want to spend them.
 
Texas Proud said:
But I HATE that they have not gotten the machines connected yet. . .
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And even when they >are< connected, they delay is a lot more than it used to be with the simple "swipe" technology. It significantly slows down the checkout process for everyone. I'm sure they'll find ways to speed things up, but for now it is a setback, not an improvement, from a convenience standpoint.

As the telephone recording says: "Press "1" for a list of ways technology has not improved our lives . . ."

Texas Proud said:
A pretty bad roll out of this new technology IMO...
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+1. In the transition period, merchants should at least tape a piece of paper to the terminal briefly giving the lowdown on what we should do.

Another reason to pay cash.
Also, while I've grown accustomed to charging everything and getting my cash-back for free, I do not have any problem with merchants giving a discount for using cash. But, that seems more rare than it used to be.
 
Gone4Good said:
Even then, if you're a criminal who lives in Sweden you'll need to find a way to launder your euros or dollars into the electronic system if you want to spend them.
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It's not hard to imagine the euro (or other currency) arising as a common grey/black market currency. Buying a used car from a private party? Pay 1/2 or 2/3 in e-Swedebucks and the remainder in cash euros. Easily spendable on your next vacation south or on a shopping trip (exchange for a nice blingy gold chain next time you're in the eurozone). Or better yet, stop over in the adjacent eurozone country of Finland.

Or maybe it's the Danish or Norwegian krone (or all of the above). More than a few live in one country yet work in another.

And it's not necessarily the drug dealers, pimps, thieves I'm thinking of. Regular middle class guys buying stuff to avoid taxes or maybe hide their small time gambling winnings.
 
FUEGO said:
It's not hard to imagine the euro (or other currency) arising as a common grey/black market currency. Buying a used car from a private party? Pay 1/2 or 2/3 in e-Swedebucks and the remainder in cash euros. Easily spendable on your next vacation south or on a shopping trip (exchange for a nice blingy gold chain next time you're in the eurozone). Or better yet, stop over in the adjacent eurozone country of Finland.

Or maybe it's the Danish or Norwegian krone (or all of the above). More than a few live in one country yet work in another.

And it's not necessarily the drug dealers, pimps, thieves I'm thinking of. Regular middle class guys buying stuff to avoid taxes or maybe hide their small time gambling winnings.
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+1

Too many easy ways to beat the system, people have and will continue to go around them. I remember w*rking with DB and buying a log truck for $100, a Vespa scooter and two calves. You didnt have to pay state sales tax on bartered items.
 
Many posters here are discussing how a well off person or family could get by with no cash and I believe that can be done for that group. But I live in a town of 4 million people and about 1/2 of them can't get a credit card and maybe never will be able to. While many of them have a cell phone, the ones I see are pre-paid and not the latest iPhone 6S. When I hire a labor intensive project out, and use the local available labor, they only take cash.

I see that part of the population buying money orders to pay their utility bills at the local grocer. I see them paying cash for gasoline, etc.

I don't believe there will be a mechanism to get the millions of these people into a cashless society here in the U.S.
 
Texas Proud said:
Maybe this should be in the pet peeve thread....

But I HATE that they have not gotten the machines connected yet... there are too many places where they have a chip machine but it does not yet work on the chip... OR, you think you can swipe (and the machine says to swipe), but it then wants you to put the chip in the slot!!!

A pretty bad roll out of this new technology IMO...
Click to expand...

samclem said:
And even when they >are< connected, they delay is a lot more than it used to be with the simple "swipe" technology. It significantly slows down the checkout process for everyone. I'm sure they'll find ways to speed things up, but for now it is a setback, not an improvement, from a convenience standpoint.

As the telephone recording says: "Press "1" for a list of ways technology has not improved our lives . . ."


+1. In the transition period, merchants should at least tape a piece of paper to the terminal briefly giving the lowdown on what we should do.

Another reason to pay cash.
Also, while I've grown accustomed to charging everything and getting my cash-back for free, I do not have any problem with merchants giving a discount for using cash. But, that seems more rare than it used to be.
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It would have been even better if the new cards were chip & PIN instead of chip & signature - the new cards I have received have been the latter. While your data is more secure on point of purchase systems/databases, a lost chip & sig card isn't any more secure than a mag strip & sig card...

Could cards be more secure? Yes. Banks decided to go with chip-and-sign credit cards, meaning you use the new chip card and sign your credit card slip, as you do now. Safer is chip-and-PIN, which requires the new cards plus a four-digit personal identification number that you would type in at the sale terminal. It's the method most other countries have adopted.

Retailers grumble that a PIN would be more secure and the banks' chip-and-sign cards are only a half step in the right direction. "Chip-and-signature cards do not go far enough to protect American consumers and will continue to make the U.S. an attractive target for criminals who can no longer be successful in compromising credit card data elsewhere," said Rob Karr, CEO of the Illinois Retail Merchants Association.
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aja8888 said:
Many posters here are discussing how a well off person or family could get by with no cash and I believe that can be done for that group. But I live in a town of 4 million people and about 1/2 of them can't get a credit card and maybe never will be able to. While many of them have a cell phone, the ones I see are pre-paid and not the latest iPhone 6S. When I hire a labor intensive project out, and use the local available labor, they only take cash.

I see that part of the population buying money orders to pay their utility bills at the local grocer. I see them paying cash for gasoline, etc.

I don't believe there will be a mechanism to get the millions of these people into a cashless society here in the U.S.
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A big chunk of these same lower income people use EBT (Electronic Benefit Transfer) cards to receive government benefits (WIC, SNAP/food stamps, sometimes cash benefits). In a more progressive country with more social welfare benefits (Sweden, for example), it's not hard to imagine that most would have access to and use an EBT type card already (don't know the situation in Sweden, but the EBT cards are rather common here in the US). Make those EBT cards compatible with a bank-type account to store money and you're set.
 
FUEGO said:
A big chunk of these same lower income people use EBT (Electronic Benefit Transfer) cards to receive government benefits (WIC, SNAP/food stamps, sometimes cash benefits). In a more progressive country with more social welfare benefits (Sweden, for example), it's not hard to imagine that most would have access to and use an EBT type card already (don't know the situation in Sweden, but the EBT cards are rather common here in the US). Make those EBT cards compatible with a bank-type account to store money and you're set.
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Many of the lower income people around here are not citizens. That may present a problem. The ladies that clean our house every two weeks don't even speak English. I could go on and on. I guess the U.S. is not a progressive country in that regard.
 
One thing sure- that guy who hangs around outside Trader Joe and asks for spare change will have to find another type of work.

Ha
 
haha said:
One thing sure- that guy who hangs around outside Trader Joe and asks for spare change will have to find another type of work.
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"Sir, can you spare a small swipe off your card account please? My wife's at home pregnant and my kid is sick." :D
 
haha said:
One thing sure- that guy who hangs around outside Trader Joe and asks for spare change will have to find another type of work.

Ha
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What about the buy and sell market for used goods? How many people would be comfortable buying a $40 Craigslist item and then letting some guy they've never met scan their credit card in an IHOP parking lot :confused:
 
CaliforniaMan said:
I have CDs and DVDs and HDs that are no longer readable, and books from the 1880s that are just fine. Until we find a truly inexpensive non-volatile medium continuous backup and re-recording will be required for all this digital media. No problem for companies, governments, banks, and other live and active users, but what will happen to archives that are no longer actively maintained? Some of the oldest books have survived 500 years, the oldest photos have survived since the beginning of photography. What will happen to the photos of my cats in 500 years? I am really worried. :(
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The oldest book dates from ~600 BC, according to this article.

https://medievalfragments.wordpress.com/2013/12/20/what-is-the-oldest-book-in-the-world/
 
We visited Istanbul and had to pay $100 US for a Visa at the airport. No problem I had Turkish Lira. They said no. Only USD or Euros. I said we were Canadians visiting Croatia (Kuna), Turkey (Lira) and Switzerland (Francs). They said tough ****. We had to go to an ATM where my Canadian Debit card was useless so I had to get a credit card cash advance for the $100 USD.

I actually could relate to the street people during that episode. Trying to get some cash to spend. But I am not worried about power failures. I figure I can barter something I no longer need for some emergency cash. (Want a Samsung Android that is sitting in a drawer? Better charge it up while I can! Sacrifice sale for $50...)
 
Ever hear of blockchain? Ever look at paper money and notice the serial number.....


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Someone better clue in the Gov. we're going cashless. I had to renew my driver's license this week and the DMV doesn't take credit or debit cards. A big sign over the counter says- Cash, Checks, Money Orders or Travelers Checks Only!
They do have an ATM, with a small convenience fee, for you to get cash.:D
 
jfn111 said:
Someone better clue in the Gov. we're going cashless. I had to renew my driver's license this week and the DMV doesn't take credit or debit cards. A big sign over the counter says- Cash, Checks, Money Orders or Travelers Checks Only!
They do have an ATM, with a small convenience fee, for you to get cash.:D
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That is because they refuse to pay those pesky CC or bank fees...


Around here you can pay online with a CC, but it is through a company that charges a convenience fee... like 2.5% or so....


Funny thing is that a couple of days ago BCBS sent an email saying THEY will not accept a CC or debit card anymore!!! So, it is not just the gvmt... (so, there goes my reward money for paying this high fee!!!!)
 
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