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Killing Cash
Old 05-08-2016, 10:00 AM   #1
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Killing Cash

Here is an interesting article on Sweden's move to a cashless society.

An interesting thought on how to reduce crime and corruption.

One Swede Will Kill Cash Forever—Unless His Foe Saves It From Extinction | WIRED

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I challenge anyone to come up with reasons to keep cash that outweigh the enormous benefits of getting rid of it. Imagine the worldwide suffering because of crime, from drug dealing to bicycle theft. Crime that requires cash. The Swedish krona is a small currency, used only in Sweden. This is the ideal place to start the biggest crime-preventing scheme ever. We could and should be the first cashless society in the world.—Björn Ulvaeus
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Swish is what really sets Sweden apart, even among its similarly low-cash, high tech Scandinavian neighbors, because it replaces cash in the last kind of transaction where it had been most convenient: person-to-person payments. A souped-up Venmo, Swish moves money instantaneously between users’ bank accounts, no processing time required. All you need is someone’s phone number.
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Old 05-08-2016, 10:33 AM   #2
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"Imagine the worldwide suffering because of crime, from drug dealing to bicycle theft. Crime that requires cash."

Umm, how exactly does eliminating cash stop bicycle theft?
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Old 05-08-2016, 10:48 AM   #3
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Since one could not pawn or sell the bike for cash, it would be more visible in this electronic world to authorities.
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Old 05-08-2016, 10:49 AM   #4
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Umm, how exactly does eliminating cash stop bicycle theft?
Because selling stolen bicycles becomes much more difficult if you have to report the transactions because all methods of payment are completely trackable.
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Killing Cash
Old 05-08-2016, 10:52 AM   #5
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Killing Cash

I'm pretty close to cashless already. 😎

I use a credit card or EFT for most everything. Might write two or three checks a year, and have to remind myself to visit the ATM occasionally for $60 fast cash, so I won't be completely "broke".
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Old 05-08-2016, 10:53 AM   #6
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Since one could not pawn or sell the bike for cash, it would be more visible in this electronic world to authorities.
So would the legitimate sale of a bicycle or anything else, which may or may not meet with the approval of "the authorities". I think a move to a cashless society holds many dangers to our freedoms.
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Old 05-08-2016, 10:54 AM   #7
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Because selling stolen bicycles becomes much more difficult if you have to report the transactions because all methods of payment are completely trackable.
And...hackable?
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Old 05-08-2016, 10:55 AM   #8
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Since one could not pawn or sell the bike for cash, it would be more visible in this electronic world to authorities.
Bartering the bike for drugs would not show up either, of course. Without cash, the theft of other valuable items might actually increase as people look for a substitute.
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Old 05-08-2016, 11:12 AM   #9
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Cash hasn't survived for millennia by accident. I have a feeling it will still be around long after we, and Bjorn Ulvaeus, have gone. Just like real books.
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Old 05-08-2016, 11:21 AM   #10
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Bartering the bike for drugs would not show up either, of course. Without cash, the theft of other valuable items might actually increase as people look for a substitute.
Why would a drug dealer accept a stolen bike as payment when he cannot sell it either? It would have zero value to him, so no drug sell with a stolen bicycle.
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Old 05-08-2016, 11:22 AM   #11
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I can remember when I was young that they were talking about how cash would become something of the past.... but it is still hear and is being used more than ever...


BTW, checks were supposed to go away also...
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Old 05-08-2016, 11:23 AM   #12
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And...hackable?
Yup.

Still much safer than a wallet with a wad of bills in it.
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Old 05-08-2016, 11:26 AM   #13
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Bartering the bike for drugs would not show up either, of course. Without cash, the theft of other valuable items might actually increase as people look for a substitute.
Doubtful. Barter is a terrible form of payment. Even if criminals did go this route the expense and inefficiency involved in a barter system dramatically raises the costs of criminal activity. And when you raise the cost of something, you get less of it.
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Old 05-08-2016, 11:37 AM   #14
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I challenge anyone to come up with reasons to keep cash that outweigh the enormous benefits of getting rid of it.
I can think of a couple reasons...less government control, and protection against negative interest rates.

All those who think cash is a negative can organize their life to be cashless if they so choose. The rest of society should not be forced to submit to any such restrictions.
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Old 05-08-2016, 11:48 AM   #15
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Why would a drug dealer accept a stolen bike as payment when he cannot sell it either? It would have zero value to him, so no drug sell with a stolen bicycle.
He can trade the bike, or jewelry, or gold coins, or Japanese Yen, for something else. Trade has been around much longer than paper cash.
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Old 05-08-2016, 11:49 AM   #16
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So would the legitimate sale of a bicycle or anything else, which may or may not meet with the approval of "the authorities". I think a move to a cashless society holds many dangers to our freedoms.
I agree. In addition, a "cashless" society based on electronic transactions is discriminatory against those with little means at the bottom of the economic ladder. They are woefully underserved in the world of electronic banking.

The theory that less cash is a deterrent to crime is based on the view that audit trails and traceable transactions will lead to more effective law enforcement. It does not address that fact that much of current money laundering takes place not because it is hidden from the authorities but because it is enabled by legitimate institutions and professionals that disregard or violate the law. There is no reason they cannot continue to do so in a cashless society.
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Old 05-08-2016, 11:49 AM   #17
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Cashless society is the banker's wet dream. Now you have no way out of the fees they will impose on you.
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Old 05-08-2016, 11:52 AM   #18
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Imagine the following scenario:

It is Friday night and I stop by the wine store to pick up a nice bottle for dinner with my beautiful bride. I get to the register, present my credit card and the transaction is rejected. The clerk tells me "Sorry, the Surgeon General has determined that an adult male should have no more than 7 drinks in a week. Government records show that you bought a six pack of beer last Sunday, and of course we assume that some of the 1.5 L bottle of rum you bought at the beginning of the month is still around. You'll have to wait a few days."

or

I pick up a box of condoms at the CVS. The checkout counter rejects me and the clerk tells me "The government has no record of any marriage. You shouldn't be having sex before then. Come back when you've got a spouse."


or

a certain personage gains political power and decides to go all Lucius Cornelius Sulla on his political opponents, so they don't threaten him in the future. You are one of them. Now you can't buy food, medicine, gas for the car, electricity for the house, or anything else. You wait at home in the dark until they come to carry out the proscription.
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Old 05-08-2016, 11:55 AM   #19
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I 'll trade you 12 bottles of wine for a bike, or maybe 2 snow tires.
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Old 05-08-2016, 11:59 AM   #20
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[...]I think a move to a cashless society holds many dangers to our freedoms.
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Originally Posted by Gumby View Post
Imagine the following scenario:

It is Friday night and I stop by the wine store to pick up a nice bottle for dinner with my beautiful bride. I get to the register, present my credit card and the transaction is rejected. The clerk tells me "Sorry, the Surgeon General has determined that an adult male should have no more than 7 drinks in a week. Government records show that you bought a six pack of beer last Sunday, and of course we assume that some of the 1.5 L bottle of rum you bought at the beginning of the month is still around. You'll have to wait a few days."

or

I pick up a box of condoms at the CVS. The checkout counter rejects me and the clerk tells me "The government has no record of any marriage. You shouldn't be having sex before then. Come back when you've got a spouse."

or

a certain personage gains political power and decides to go all Lucius Cornelius Sulla on his political opponents, so they don't threaten him in the future. You are one of them. Now you can't buy food, medicine, gas for the car, electricity for the house, or anything else. You wait at home in the dark until they come to carry out the proscription.
(shudder) I thought I was the only one who worried about such things in the middle of the night. I sincerely hope none of us ever have to experience scenarios like that.
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