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Re: Killing Civilians in Iraq
Old 06-04-2006, 01:57 PM   #61
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Re: Killing Civilians in Iraq

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Originally Posted by Gpax7
Not aimed at anyone in particular but it seems to me that when a Vietnam Vet has an opinion, most people pretty much chalk it up to anger and bitterness.*
As a Viet vet, I (and I'm speaking for myself) am no longer "angry or bitter", although I will admit at a younger age, I was, both.

Today, I am just sad about what I (and others) faced; not only "over there", but also from the "folks at home".

Too many of my "brothers" are dying at an early age (50-60's).* I attended the funeral of my FIL yesterday.* He was 88, and a WWII veteran.* I'm sure that I won't make it to that age (I'm "declared" disabled due to my AO exposure in Nam.)

At this age, I no longer offer "opinions", only "history" (as I remember it...)

- Ron...
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Re: Killing Civilians in Iraq
Old 06-04-2006, 01:59 PM   #62
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Re: Killing Civilians in Iraq

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Originally Posted by brewer12345
Hey, there are stupid people of every political stripe. Not much of a surprise. Then again, the stupid people in your pictures didn't get us into a war (yet).
Yes, but that wasn't the point I was responding to.
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Re: Killing Civilians in Iraq
Old 06-04-2006, 03:59 PM   #63
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Re: Killing Civilians in Iraq

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Yes, but that wasn't the point I was responding to.
Strawmen are an easy target.
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Re: Killing Civilians in Iraq
Old 06-04-2006, 09:36 PM   #64
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Re: Killing Civilians in Iraq

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Originally Posted by Leonidas
I appreciate that you are in support of our fellow citizens in the military.
How 'bout this one?
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Re: Killing Civilians in Iraq
Old 06-05-2006, 01:26 PM   #65
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Re: Killing Civilians in Iraq

Iraq is/was an independant counry that was invaded by the US and the UK with no approval from the UN, it was a direct covert attack upon a nation that had done nothing to either power.

Canada is activly involved in Afghanistan, as part of a UN exercise.

Weapons of Mass Destruction have been found in Iraq, unfortunatly they are the US Marine Corps.

Future Ads about the few, the brave etc, may well receive mixed responses.

My Dad recounted stories of executing Germands during WW11 as they did to Allies, but that was then, today the rules of engagemnet are differant.

http://www.cronaca.com/archives/000183.html
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Re: Killing Civilians in Iraq
Old 06-05-2006, 02:15 PM   #66
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Re: Killing Civilians in Iraq

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Originally Posted by Maximillion


Weapons of Mass Destruction have been found in Iraq, unfortunatly they are the US Marine Corps.


Max: Take a trip sometime to Camp Pendleton.
The Marine Corps. is trained to do exactly what you quoted.

The Royal Canadian Mounties are trained to Mount Horses.

Different strokes for different folks.
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Re: Killing Civilians in Iraq
Old 06-05-2006, 03:12 PM   #67
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Re: Killing Civilians in Iraq

Jarhead, if you took a global survey whether people respected the R.C.M.P. or the U.S.M.C more, the R.C.MP. would win, hands down.

Sitting Bull refused to surrender to the U.S Cavalry, he called them liars, but he had no hesitation to surrender to the Mounties, those he trusted.

I have always considered the U.S.M.C just a bunch of hype, no comparison to the Red Berets, and you and Nords are the military types here, read the history of D Day(surpise, the 6'th of June) and note what Regiments took every single objective and advanced the furthest into Europe, and it wasn't John Wayne.

Shooting unarmed people is murder, and if you are bragging that the U.S.M.C is taught to murder people, well, that says it all.

7 years National Guard (Reserves) duty, smart enough to know that some old fart wasn't going to use me to advance his career.

Dad, WW11 Veteran, Dunkirk, Coldstream Guards, F in L, Demon Squadron, Battle of Britain.

My F in L as he lay dying ,was scared God would not forgive him for bombing all those Germans.
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Re: Killing Civilians in Iraq
Old 06-05-2006, 03:18 PM   #68
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Re: Killing Civilians in Iraq

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximillion
Iraq is/was an independant counry that was invaded by the US and the UK with no approval from the UN, it was a direct covert attack upon a nation that had done nothing to either power.
I guess locking radar guided missles onto planes patrolling the "No Fly Zone" agreed to by the Iraqi leadership is nothing.
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Re: Killing Civilians in Iraq
Old 06-05-2006, 03:19 PM   #69
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Re: Killing Civilians in Iraq

My thoughts are so muddled on this whole thing -- it's hard to come up with a cogent comment on it.

Whilst trying to organize my chaotic thoughts, however, I did come across this:


Pentagon to omit Geneva ban from new army manual: report
AFP - Mon Jun 5, 8:49 AM ET
LOS ANGELES - New policies on prisoners being drawn up by the Pentagon will reportedly omit a key tenet of the Geneva Convention that explicitly bans "humiliating and degrading treatment." Citing unidentified but knowledgeable military officials, the Los Angeles Times said the step would mark a further, potentially permanent, shift by the US government away from strict adherence to international human rights standards.


It's not clear to me how we can keep a straight face while we prosecute 18-year-olds in the line of fire for inhumane treatment of Iraqis -- up to including possible murder. *Not while we're sending them this kind of message at the same time.

I know we've had career military, one-hitch military (including myself), and Vietnam and other war vets on this topic. *Forgive me if I missed it in the thread here, but do we have any COMBAT vets out there who would be willing to revisit the past for the purpose of educating some of us out here?

I have known a few combat vets myself -- ground soldiers and a helicopter pilot. * Even the tiny view they're willing to give me of the experience leaves me in awe of them and with a terrible sadness for them.

I'd hesitate to say anything, myself, on this whole business without giving them the opportunity to have their say first.

Caroline



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Re: Killing Civilians in Iraq
Old 06-05-2006, 03:36 PM   #70
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Re: Killing Civilians in Iraq

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximillion
Jarhead, if you took a global survey whether people respected the R.C.M.P. or the U.S.M.C more, the R.C.MP. would win, hands down.
It does appear there is much truth to the well known phrase associated with the RCMP that "We always get our man".

But being as how you're obviously the non-judgemental, live-and-let live, politically correct type, I'm sure you've already sent them a wedding gift.

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Re: Killing Civilians in Iraq
Old 06-05-2006, 03:40 PM   #71
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Re: Killing Civilians in Iraq

Must you feed the troll?
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Re: Killing Civilians in Iraq
Old 06-05-2006, 03:41 PM   #72
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Re: Killing Civilians in Iraq

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Originally Posted by brewer12345
Must you feed the troll?
I assume U R talking about Max?
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Re: Killing Civilians in Iraq
Old 06-05-2006, 03:46 PM   #73
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Re: Killing Civilians in Iraq

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Originally Posted by Caroline
do we have any COMBAT vets out there who would be willing to revisit the past for the purpose of educating some of us out here?
Was I a "combat vet"? - No
Was I under fire? - Yes
Did I get combat pay? - Yes
Do I want to talk about it - No.... (thanks for asking, though..)

- Ron
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Re: Killing Civilians in Iraq
Old 06-05-2006, 03:49 PM   #74
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Re: Killing Civilians in Iraq

Caroline--My question is which Geneva Convention. *We didn't sign the most recent one, and it has been a very long time since I had the need or desire to look it up. *I have seen several articles in the past complaining that we violated the Geneva Convention, normally the actions would be violations of the most recent one we did not sign not the one we did sign.
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Re: Killing Civilians in Iraq
Old 06-05-2006, 04:06 PM   #75
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Re: Killing Civilians in Iraq

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Originally Posted by Maximillion


Shooting unarmed people is murder, and if you are bragging that the U.S.M.C is taught to murder people, well, that says it all.


The Marine Corps. Mission is to be first in, last out in most cases. *Shooting civilians (Non-combatants), is not, nor ever has been a part of the program.





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Re: Killing Civilians in Iraq
Old 06-05-2006, 04:07 PM   #76
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Re: Killing Civilians in Iraq

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Do I want to talk about it - No.... (thanks for asking, though..)
You're welcome Ron, and thank YOU for your service.

Caroline
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Re: Killing Civilians in Iraq
Old 06-17-2006, 07:05 PM   #77
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Re: Killing Civilians in Iraq

Ron, why not talk about it? I didn't have a combat MOS but I sure learned how to lock and load, run for the bunker and hit the wire. And all in III CTZ, IV CTZ, and Phu Quoc Island.. Personally I have had a real hard time over the last 37 years choking back the anger and bitterness. I find it beyond belief that in 1969, I was drafted with a wife and son on the way and at the end of 19 months service the money I was given for pay was so little my extended family had to support my immediate family. So now the first termers are making thousands. Why?
Because you can't draft them. You have to pay them enough to make them interested.
My own career NCOs taught me a new term I'd never heard till I got incountry...the word was fodder.
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Re: Killing Civilians in Iraq
Old 06-17-2006, 07:11 PM   #78
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Re: Killing Civilians in Iraq

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Originally Posted by Gpax7
Ron, why not talk about it?
Hey, if it's working I wouldn't mess with it...
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Re: Killing Civilians in Iraq
Old 06-18-2006, 12:57 PM   #79
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Re: Killing Civilians in Iraq

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Hey, if it's working I wouldn't mess with it...
Thanks Nords (enuf said...)
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Re: Killing Civilians in Iraq
Old 06-18-2006, 02:05 PM   #80
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Re: Killing Civilians in Iraq

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximillion
Iraq is/was an independant counry that was invaded by the US and the UK with no approval from the UN, it was a direct covert attack upon a nation that had done nothing to either power.

Canada is activly involved in Afghanistan, as part of a UN exercise.

Weapons of Mass Destruction have been found in Iraq, unfortunatly they are the US Marine Corps.

Future Ads about the few, the brave etc, may well receive mixed responses.

My Dad recounted stories of executing Germands during WW11 as they did to Allies, but that was then, today the rules of engagemnet are differant.

http://www.cronaca.com/archives/000183.html
The United States does not need U.N. approval for anything it does. Get over it.
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