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Old 12-30-2009, 12:10 AM   #21
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I would compare it more to closing the back door of a farmhouse 2 miles away after the horses left the barn.



I particularly liked this quote from a traveller from Australia who flew after the new rules were implemented.

[Two passengers arriving in L.A. from Australia] recounted how an hour before landing an announcement had been made that no one could get up for the remainder of the flight.

“It was kind of funny,” Mr. Barnes said, “because the previous announcement had been about the danger of deep-vein thrombosis or strombosis or whatever you get from sitting for too long. We laughed.”
Apropos to my previous post. I hope some Doctor, or medical health type guy, does the statistical analysis how many additional deaths would result from complications of deep-vein thrombosis (DVT) if they keep this practice in place.
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Old 12-30-2009, 01:08 AM   #22
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Ok the other forum made up of primarily 20-40 years old guys involved in video game business hated this proposal... but.

I think most people agree that much of the stuff TSA is does is more for appearances stake than actually security.

Racial or much more accurately religious profiling is certainly controversial, but I think if we are serious about improving security we have to adopt some of it much like Israel's El Al which relies on profiling.

Here is what I propose. AFAIK no female US citizen has ever been involved in a hijacking or terrorist involving a plane (not many incident period). So rather than putting mom's with kids and grandma through all of the screening we do this. They arrive at the airport show their ID one time to airline employee or TSA. They then with kids in tow pass through a metal detector/bomb sniffer, roughly on par with pre 9/11 security.

Non-US citizens who are males and are between 18-50 and have Muslim names receive extra scrutiny i.e. pat down, and/or behavioral interviews.

Everyone else including US males, all other foreigners would go through the existing screening process.
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Old 12-30-2009, 01:51 AM   #23
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We're flying next week to the US and not looking forward to that at all. It was bad enough before. Fortunately I planned this one as a megatrip so the relatives could meet my family and we'll drive to where I grew up so I can show my wife, etc. So this should be the last US trip until perhaps the kids are teenagers.

The domestic EU flight from Tallinn to London should be fine. No added restrictions and all the wealthy terrorists fly into London so not worried about blowing up. I scheduled us a full day layover in London to break up the flying time for our 2 year old which unfortunately makes us go through security again in England, the only downside (Tallinn is a breeze as it's not busy at all in winter).

I think for the England -USA trip we'll pack our coats in checked baggage to minimize fuss in security and just layer with heavy pull over sweaters. I'll take my carry-on with a few essentials and my wife one backpack with toddler supplies for our 2 year old. I managed to get my wife and toddler their own window aisle so the wee one can move around a little without disturbing others as much as possible and curl up to sleep on the window seat. I have the seat directly across from them on the aisle where I'm sure my seatmate will be fat, stink, drunk, keep bothering me or all of the above as I'm usually that lucky.

I'll take a fanny pack where I can stuff passports, documents, cell phone, pocket camera, etc just in case for some reason they ban my carry on last minute. We're not taking any laptops this trip either to help ease going through security as well.

Not sure what else we can really do. Slip on shoes would be great for the security line but I don't own any and I'm not buying them just for this one trip. I also have travellers insurance which includes acts of terror (it was included, not an add on.)

Any other tips from recent international travellers? Something I've not thought of?

As for keeping toddlers seated for the last hour of the flight. Probably possible if everyone doesn't mind continuous screaming for the last hour too.
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Old 12-30-2009, 07:17 AM   #24
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[MODERATOR EDIT]

I am a bit unclear why do not simply arm the flight crews (guns for the cockpit folks, tasers for the flight attendants) and make sure that there is at least one air marshall on most flights. No security screening will keep all the nuts off the plane. I suspect the issue is money. And think of how delicious it would have been if Ivana got tased on her flight...

I am so not looking forward to a month of business travel in Feb...
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Old 12-30-2009, 07:28 AM   #25
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Breaking News

Dutch to use full-body scans for U.S. flights - CNN.com

Can't hide your junk in Amsterdam anymore (going to the US anyway).
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Old 12-30-2009, 08:20 AM   #26
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Yet another reason to fly Space-A if eligible! It's more of a fun adventure if in the right frame of mind!
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Old 12-30-2009, 08:28 AM   #27
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Good luck with your flight, Trek. Duck if you see Ivana on the plane

Let us know how it goes and how the return security compares on your return to Tallin.
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Old 12-30-2009, 09:05 AM   #28
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We're flying next week to the US and not looking forward to that at all. It was bad enough before. Fortunately I planned this one as a megatrip so the relatives could meet my family and we'll drive to where I grew up so I can show my wife, etc. So this should be the last US trip until perhaps the kids are teenagers.

The domestic EU flight from Tallinn to London should be fine. No added restrictions and all the wealthy terrorists fly into London so not worried about blowing up. I scheduled us a full day layover in London to break up the flying time for our 2 year old which unfortunately makes us go through security again in England, the only downside (Tallinn is a breeze as it's not busy at all in winter).

I think for the England -USA trip we'll pack our coats in checked baggage to minimize fuss in security and just layer with heavy pull over sweaters. I'll take my carry-on with a few essentials and my wife one backpack with toddler supplies for our 2 year old. I managed to get my wife and toddler their own window aisle so the wee one can move around a little without disturbing others as much as possible and curl up to sleep on the window seat. I have the seat directly across from them on the aisle where I'm sure my seatmate will be fat, stink, drunk, keep bothering me or all of the above as I'm usually that lucky.

I'll take a fanny pack where I can stuff passports, documents, cell phone, pocket camera, etc just in case for some reason they ban my carry on last minute. We're not taking any laptops this trip either to help ease going through security as well.

Not sure what else we can really do. Slip on shoes would be great for the security line but I don't own any and I'm not buying them just for this one trip. I also have travellers insurance which includes acts of terror (it was included, not an add on.)

Any other tips from recent international travellers? Something I've not thought of?

As for keeping toddlers seated for the last hour of the flight. Probably possible if everyone doesn't mind continuous screaming for the last hour too.
I just flew from England to the USA this week and all your preparations should be good. I did almost exactly the same as you, including the fanny pack where you can slip your cell phone, i-pod, wallet etc prior to going through the metal detector. Note that at the gate all the contents of your carry ons will be removed and examined and there will be a thorough pat-down - male security guards on men, females on women as your genitals are likely to be touched during the search I would prefer the body scanners now being deployed in Holland to having my private parts man handled

Remember, no liquids before the screening but you are allowed to buy and carry-on liquids purchased once you are through screening - I noticed several folks allowed to carry on bottles of water, soda etc even after the extra body search. I did have a laptop in my back pack but that was about all there was in there.

They did not enforce the extra restriction on movement an hour before landing.
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Old 12-30-2009, 09:37 AM   #29
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DD is headed to Hawaii on Friday, I am heading to Japan on Sat...then Shanghai on Tues, then back on Thurs, then Paris on next sat....and on and on. I am not looking forward to this next month at all, as I will be on an airplane every second or third day.

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Old 12-30-2009, 09:42 AM   #30
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DD is headed to Hawaii on Friday, I am heading to Japan on Sat...then Shanghai on Tues, then back on Thurs, then Paris on next sat....and on and on. I am not looking forward to this next month at all, as I will be on an airplane every second or third day.
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Old 12-30-2009, 09:55 AM   #31
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Well, I was hoping there would be some valid reason for the last-hour rule, but I guess the people in charge are just stupid.

Here are some questions:

1. How many people have been caught by security, trying to bring real explosives on a plane?

2. If someone is caught, is that information released to the media?
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Old 12-30-2009, 10:01 AM   #32
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I just flew from England to the USA this week and all your preparations should be good. I did almost exactly the same as you, including the fanny pack where you can slip your cell phone, i-pod, wallet etc prior to going through the metal detector. Note that at the gate all the contents of your carry ons will be removed and examined and there will be a thorough pat-down - male security guards on men, females on women as your genitals are likely to be touched during the search I would prefer the body scanners now being deployed in Holland to having my private parts man handled

Remember, no liquids before the screening but you are allowed to buy and carry-on liquids purchased once you are through screening - I noticed several folks allowed to carry on bottles of water, soda etc even after the extra body search. I did have a laptop in my back pack but that was about all there was in there.

They did not enforce the extra restriction on movement an hour before landing.
I've worried for years that the terrorists might start putting explosives in their private places or where the "sun don't shine". My air travel days are over when I see the the TSA agent waving me to an exam room while pulling on one latex glove.
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Old 12-30-2009, 10:05 AM   #33
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Well, I was hoping there would be some valid reason for the last-hour rule, but I guess the people in charge are just stupid.

Here are some questions:

1. How many people have been caught by security, trying to bring real explosives on a plane?

2. If someone is caught, is that information released to the media?
There was a case documented some years back about an Irish woman who was caught carrying a bomb onto a plane and it had been given to her by her boyfriend without her knowledge.

Quote:
In 1986, Anne Marie Murphy, a young Irish woman, was planning to take an El Al flight from London to Tel Aviv to meet the parents of her fiance, a Palestinian. Murphy, who was pregnant, had no idea that the man she was planning to marry had hidden plastic explosives and a detonator in one of her suitcases. Israeli profilers interviewing Murphy found out about her boyfriend, got suspicious, and then discovered the bomb before the jumbo jet took off.
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Old 12-30-2009, 10:06 AM   #34
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DD flew Monday from Detroit to NYC; she said the "Keep Seat Belt Fastened" sign was on the entire trip and whenever a passenger did get up to use the restroom or to open the overhead compartment, a crew member lurked nearby.
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Old 12-30-2009, 10:09 AM   #35
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I've worried for years that the terrorists might start putting explosives in their private places or where the "sun don't shine". My air travel days are over when I see the the TSA agent waving me to an exam room while pulling on one latex glove.

Agreed, which is why the new body scanners are much better - they see through skin and fat. Civil liberty groups hate them of course, because of modesty and privacy violations, but this is the new world order I'm afraid.
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Old 12-30-2009, 10:17 AM   #36
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I've worried for years that the terrorists might start putting explosives in their private places or where the "sun don't shine". My air travel days are over when I see the the TSA agent waving me to an exam room while pulling on one latex glove.
I've been patted down a couple times for illicit (but non explosive) materials by police back in the day. And having them tucked down into the more personal areas has always successfully kept them from being found. Even if they are allowed to touch you there, most people tend to shy away from it. I doubt they'll be finding much. Of course, I'm not sure what volume of explosive would be required in order to do any real damage. I guess if you go walking in looking like an Alex from A Clockwork Orange they might catch you.

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Old 12-30-2009, 10:20 AM   #37
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I'm still concerned that while the TSA is going to be checking out our entire beings with new scanners, etc., they still don't scan/check all the cargo, mail and other shipments that so often travels with us on planes.
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Old 12-30-2009, 10:28 AM   #38
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Having undergone several surgical operations I couldn´t care less about passing through the body scanner. I wish that gadget would make all the unshoeing, unbelting, unpocketing unpacking, unwhatever.... etc redundant
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Old 12-30-2009, 10:31 AM   #39
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Interesting article on when will the TSA stop screwing around and get serious about aviation security? Will We Get Serious About Aviation Security? - Reason Magazine
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Old 12-30-2009, 11:24 AM   #40
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Is that a stick of dynamite in your pants, or are you just happy to see me?
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