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Re: Long-time unemployed male population growing
Old 08-01-2006, 04:00 PM   #21
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Re: Long-time unemployed male population growing

An interesting subtext, to me at least, was the idea expressed that men without women can go "off the rails" easier and more completely than men who are trying to keep a woman, live up to her expectations, etc.

From what I have seen, this is definitely true. Nothing like a divorced 40 year old laid-off welder to let his life get really primitive.

Ha
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Re: Long-time unemployed male population growing
Old 08-01-2006, 04:11 PM   #22
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Re: Long-time unemployed male population growing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha


The tone of the article bugged me:* a bunch of loser men that could get loser jobs if they just buckled down and got off their lazy asses.
You could say that... or a bunch of men who used to be paid well, the economy has changed and they have not... so they sit on their lazy asses waiting to get a job at thier 'high' wage.. I say 'high' as it was not that high, but the one example was someone making $50K with either a high school education or less.. not too bad.. The reality is now they would earn $16K to $24K if they got a job... so if they can get $12K disability then why go for the $4K or so uptick
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Re: Long-time unemployed male population growing
Old 08-01-2006, 04:44 PM   #23
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Re: Long-time unemployed male population growing

Never understood the mentality, not even a little. The income stream stops, you get another one going, then work on improving it.

Sitting at home on the couch gets you zero dollars per hour.
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Re: Long-time unemployed male population growing
Old 08-01-2006, 04:48 PM   #24
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Re: Long-time unemployed male population growing

Something about ancient Rome's 200 holidays a year, and free events in the collosium with loaves and fishes thrown to the unemployed crowds to keep them happy because all the work was done by slaves from Gaul and Syria comes to mind....
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Re: Long-time unemployed male population growing
Old 08-01-2006, 04:55 PM   #25
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Re: Long-time unemployed male population growing

Hm, I don't think John McCain or Hillary Clinton will be running on that platform...
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Re: Long-time unemployed male population growing
Old 08-01-2006, 04:55 PM   #26
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Re: Long-time unemployed male population growing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud
You could say that... or a bunch of men who used to be paid well, the economy has changed and they have not... so they sit on their lazy asses waiting to get a job at thier 'high' wage.. I say 'high' as it was not that high, but the one example was someone making $50K with either a high school education or less.. not too bad.. The reality is now they would earn $16K to $24K if they got a job... so if they can get $12K disability then why go for the $4K or so uptick
My problem was lumping a bunch of people together, often with different issues. The BLS study was better at parsing out the disabled and the retired from those who have otherwise left the workforce.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny
Never understood the mentality, not even a little.
Maybe some learned helplessness? After repeated failures some people just give up.

I do admit some people need a friendly kick in the ass.
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Re: Long-time unemployed male population growing
Old 08-01-2006, 05:14 PM   #27
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Re: Long-time unemployed male population growing

I can see people who try and fail and fail and fail and fail and give up. A little.

I cant see someone who loses their job and goes and sits home for 2 years waiting for someone to offer them a job at their full former salary.
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Re: Long-time unemployed male population growing
Old 08-01-2006, 05:18 PM   #28
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Re: Long-time unemployed male population growing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny
I am absolutely unemployed!

However, I have a heck of a lot of work to do for an unemployed guy
Same here.

I think of myself as gainfully unemployed


There might be some cases where the wife has become the person that works....
I know there are more than a few here where the DW is working while the DH is posting on this forum full time...
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Re: Long-time unemployed male population growing
Old 08-01-2006, 05:29 PM   #29
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Re: Long-time unemployed male population growing

I wish I could go full time.

Spent most of the last hour putting out the trash, setting up tomorrows coffee, making up baby drinks and feeding the dogs.
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Re: Long-time unemployed male population growing
Old 08-01-2006, 06:47 PM   #30
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Re: Long-time unemployed male population growing

* *Can't figure the mentality either ... seems to me that if you're blasting through your savings, and you're living off your home equity, you do something -- anything -- to bring in some $$, rather than sit around and say, I don't want to think about it.* And the woman who has too much respect for her DH to insist that he get a job has rocks in her head.
* * Maybe that former engineer is going to guilt his kids into taking care of him when the house goes into foreclosure.....

* *I suppose it's also possible that these guys actually are making $$ under the table and don't want to let the cat out of the bag...
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Re: Long-time unemployed male population growing
Old 08-01-2006, 07:48 PM   #31
 
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Re: Long-time unemployed male population growing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny
I can see people who try and fail and fail and fail and fail and give up. A little.

I cant see someone who loses their job and goes and sits home for 2 years waiting for someone to offer them a job at their full former salary.
These are people that have worked their careers, and had failures earlier in life. You may understand their actions better when you're 55. To a lot of them it's like 'starting over' without the energy and optimism they had in their 20's.

They are probably waiting around for a 'better economy', which has not happened since 2001. Work is probably more terrifying than death at this stage in their lives.

I'm not saying that I would choose this path, but I have learned empathy for those that do. And yes I am 55.
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Re: Long-time unemployed male population growing
Old 08-01-2006, 08:20 PM   #32
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Re: Long-time unemployed male population growing

I was never unemployed for 42 years.... never.* Now, I am unemployed by choice, and do NOT think I could go back and endure some of the stuff I had to endure, just so I could remain employed.* A lot of the stuff is demeaning.* I want to be productive and useful.* I just realize that a lot of cubicle work is mostly unnecessary.* BTW:* Just took a look at Vanguard Indexes and* * * * don't think I need to go back.* I made some loot last week while screwing around in New Mexico.* Life is good.
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Re: Long-time unemployed male population growing
Old 08-02-2006, 10:37 AM   #33
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Re: Long-time unemployed male population growing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cut-Throat
These are people that have worked their careers, and had failures earlier in life. You may understand their actions better when you're 55. To a lot of them it's like 'starting over' without the energy and optimism they had in their 20's.

They are probably waiting around for a 'better economy', which has not happened since 2001. Work is probably more terrifying than death at this stage in their lives.

I'm not saying that I would choose this path, but I have learned empathy for those that do. And yes I am 55.
Perhaps. But I doubt that when i'm *75* I'd lie down and die if I needed to have some money coming into the house. I've never been 'afraid of work'.
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Re: Long-time unemployed male population growing
Old 08-02-2006, 01:07 PM   #34
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Re: Long-time unemployed male population growing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny
Perhaps.* But I doubt that when i'm *75* I'd lie down and die if I needed to have some money coming into the house.* I've never been 'afraid of work'.
Has nothing to do with attitude.* After a certain age, "the sprit is willing, but the flesh is weak"...* (with apologies to Matthew 26:41)*
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Re: Long-time unemployed male population growing
Old 08-02-2006, 01:10 PM   #35
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Re: Long-time unemployed male population growing

After watching my 72 year old dad bounce around the playground yesterday with my 18 month old until the 18 month old begged for mercy, I think the spirit is still a little bit involved

I told my wife..."I think we have a year and a half old, and what...a 4 or 5 year old?"
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Re: Long-time unemployed male population growing
Old 08-02-2006, 01:39 PM   #36
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Re: Long-time unemployed male population growing

My ex-wife's mother ended up going through some kind of mid-life crisis a few years back. She had a halfway decent job as a gov't contractor, with something like 28 years of service. She also had a townhouse with a fairly modest mortgage.

Then, one day, she decided she wants to start out on her own and run her own business. She was going to do some kind of customer service training. In the end, she blew through her retirement and savings. Her father made 1 or 2 mortgage payments for her, but after that decided he wasn't throwing any more money away. So she lost the house and moved in with him for a couple years.

She did find work at a temp agency for awhile, and was living in some kind of Section 8 housing. Then she went on disability. And then she died. I don't know what from, but I think it was heart related. I forget how old she was, somewhere in her mid 50's.

All the while, as she was draining her accounts and not bringing any income in, she just kept insisting that it was in God's hands. God would look out for her. All she had to do was pray. Yeah. Right. Now I'll admit, the woman was kind of muffed up in the head. So was her daughter, I discovered. AFTER we married. Wish I would've discovered it BEFORE...would've probably saved me at least 3 years of misery and aggravation.
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Re: Long-time unemployed male population growing
Old 08-02-2006, 01:58 PM   #37
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Re: Long-time unemployed male population growing

I saw the toll that lengthy unemployment took on some friends in Silicon Valley. Some of the least talented bounced back and were re-employed the fastest. I'm not sure they deserve "credit" for being natural-born optimists and energizer bunnies. Women seemed to do better than men--are we more practical? less self-indulgent? more willing to settle for less? The ones who were always naturally pessimistic or had low self-esteem to begin with fared the worst.

Only one of my unemployed friends ever took on any work outside high tech (that I know of). She worked for a few months at a chocolate shop--a labor of love, you might say. If my husband hadn't gotten the teaching job, I don;t know if he would've taken "anything"--but then we were technically FIRE (save perhaps for that nagging health care thing). A relative was laid off as a VP and it took 10 years for him to take a lesser job: a clerical position at a brokerage--which he quit as soon as COBRA would carry him to Medicare.

Those younger than mid-50s probably cannot imagine what this would be like. Even if one worked for multiple employers and had multiple degrees. It's not that you can't learn new stuff, but that the energy required to start afresh can be difficult to muster if you don't have the right personality. I suspect depression, guilt, shame, and anger factor in for some as well. And of course there are those who would jump at anything not to work...I can dig it!
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Re: Long-time unemployed male population growing
Old 08-02-2006, 02:25 PM   #38
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Re: Long-time unemployed male population growing

I can't help thinking that these people too proud to take a job "beneath" them will start new careers as homeless people with signs at street corners, and petition hawkers outside the groceries, and magazine sales people knocking at my door, and religious fanatics handing me brochures.* *They're just having a little problem adapting right now.* *
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Re: Long-time unemployed male population growing
Old 08-02-2006, 02:31 PM   #39
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Re: Long-time unemployed male population growing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre1969
All the while, as she was draining her accounts and not bringing any income in, she just kept insisting that *it was in God's hands. *God would look out for her. *All she had to do was pray. *Yeah. *Right. *Now I'll admit, the woman was kind of muffed up in the head. *So was her daughter, I discovered. *AFTER we married. *Wish I would've discovered it BEFORE...would've probably saved me at least 3 years of misery and aggravation.
This reminds me of my brother. He has 3 rules that he freely shares with any man who is planning marriage. Speaking of the intended woman, he asks:

1) Do you like her mother? Is she nice, reasonably attractive for her age, well groomed? If not, go on down the road, because this young woman you are about to tie yourself to will one day be a lot like her middle aged mother.

2) Does she like her father? If not, go on down the road, because the odds are that eventually she won't like you either.

3) Look at her apartment. Is it neat and clean, and kept with some care and taste? If not, go on down the road because this is what your house will look like after you are married.

Only acceptable score is yes to all. *

Frog-kissing doesn't work, for men or women.

Ha
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Re: Long-time unemployed male population growing
Old 08-02-2006, 02:38 PM   #40
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Re: Long-time unemployed male population growing

Whats that old saying? A man marries a woman thinking she will never change, which will disappoint because she will, and a woman marries a man thinking he'll change, which will disappoint because he never will?
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