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Old 08-14-2013, 09:11 AM   #81
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FWIW, I recently heard on a consumer oriented radio show that a 2010 Prius that had been selling for about $19,000 six months ago is now selling for about $15,000. Apparently, the public appetite for gas saving vehicles has been going down recently.

So, if you think like me and believe that the cost of gasoline will edge up over the life of the vehicle then a Prius may be a good buy at this time. (I think gasoline will average at least $5 a gallon over the life of the car I bought. My 2.)
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Old 08-14-2013, 10:12 AM   #82
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Last year I purchased two new cars and one was a Prius. I also purchased a Chevy Sonic. I compared the Prius to a Nissan Leaf(all EV) and a Volt and the Prius was just so much more mature as a design that it won out easily. Even the GM dealer told me that I made the right choice. I get ~ 51mpg in the Northeast in the Prius. Over it's life I figure that I will save $9k vs a 30Mpg car, assuming it lasts 150k miles. The Prius cost me $23k new and I added a 10yr 125k warranty to it for $1.4k. The Sonic cost me $13.5k and is a great car with a 10yr 125k warranty for $1.4. The Prius is a very smooth and an adult ride that has allot more room then the older models.

The Sonic is sporty and cheap to keep. It also will surprise you with the amount of room inside of it. It is also the only USA made subcompact car. I am happy to buy American again.

If I had the choice again I would buy the Chevy Cruise Eco or, now, the new Diesel that gets 46Mpg! Instead of the Prius. While I like the Prius and really like hatchbacks. Take a look at the Chevy's or the Ford hybrids which are competing with the Prius. I showed a coupon from another dealer and got $2k off the price of the Prius. I also got $1k off the warranty by not accepting their first offer and referencing my other car purchase.

Good luck!!
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Old 08-14-2013, 10:57 AM   #83
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Chuckanut, we have a 2013 Prius V and here's how I look at the gasoline cost. We leased it for three years and will probably use up the allotted 36K miles. The Prius, at 40 mpg, will use 900 gallons of gas in that time span. The vehicle we had got 24mpg at best so based on that, it would have required 1500 gallons for the same 36K miles, or a difference of 600 gallons. Using your cost of $5 per gallon, that equates to $3000. That's a lot of savings in three years. Yeah, the Prius cost at least $3000 more than the equivalent ICE but it is still worth it to me. Yeah, we could have found something getting better than 24 mpg. Yeah, yeah. We love the Prius V and probably wouldn't have considered any other Prius except the V model just because of it's size.

Edited after In-control's post. Wish In-control had mentioned which Prius is referenced as there is a big difference in size and weight and price. The Prius V we leased stickered at $29500 and we added after-market leather for $1500. Looking at various reports on the Prius, we are getting the 41mpg as per reports but the other Prius models get much better mileage.
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Old 08-14-2013, 11:57 AM   #84
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If anyone drives enough to be thinking of a Prius, Volt, Leaf, etc., then I feel so sorry for them!

At least for F and me, driving has become a lot less fun than it once was. Is this because we are getting older? We still run errands and go on pleasure drives every day, but only short ones around our suburb. Yesterday it was raining hard so I just parked in his driveway after lunch and we sat there and enjoyed each other's company at 0 mph instead of driving.
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Old 08-14-2013, 12:12 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by MasterBlaster View Post
All this Prius love, and yet not much analysis.

Just my two cents...I don't get the Prius. If you love the hybrid technology then I would say - go for it. But if your intent is either to save money or to save the planet, then you need to think hard because the Prius does neither.

For a tiny subcompact car it is a very expensive car compared to gasoline versions. Where I live the Prius goes for around $10k more than a Corolla.

Just for fun work out what you would save should you buy gasoline if you owned a late model Corolla compared to what you would spend on a Prius. That's the good part. Then you have to add in the additional Prius costs. You'll need to account for the Prius extra insurance/interest/maintenance/depreciation. After that little exercise the choice becomes more clear. That is especially true should you have to "invest" in one of those Prius battery packs and installation.

It's pretty clear then that the Prius is no bargain, any way you look at it.

From a carbon emissions point of view the all-in lifetime emissions of a Prius including manufacturing is greater than a Corolla.

I did the analysis and considering 150K and $3.65 gallon + excise tax(MA) increase insurance it saves ~$9k so it basically broke even with a 30mpg+ car @ $14k. The only difference is that they Prius is a larger car then you can get for most $14k cars. I am also expecting it to last well beyond the 150k mark as it has two engines and the more town driving you do the more the EV motor operates.

You can go either way.

Like I said before -
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Old 08-14-2013, 12:18 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by W2R View Post
If anyone drives enough to be thinking of a Prius, Volt, Leaf, etc., then I feel so sorry for them!

At least for F and me, driving has become a lot less fun than it once was. Is this because we are getting older? We still run errands and go on pleasure drives every day, but only short ones around our suburb. Yesterday it was raining hard so I just parked in his driveway after lunch and we sat there and enjoyed each other's company at 0 mph instead of driving.
It's part of our touring all the National Parks ect. journey. Lots of miles with Kayaks on the roof and bikes on the back! So driving is part of the adventure.
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Old 06-15-2014, 12:42 PM   #87
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I know that battery life has been a concern of some when purchasing a hybrid. I also know that most long time hybrid owners have not had battery problems. Toyota claims the batteries are supposed to last for the life of the vehicle.

I recently read an article on Toyota's hybrid batteries and why they seem to last so long with little significant reduction in their ability to power the electric motor. It seems that Toyota has deliberately engineered the battery and charging system to give the batteries a long life.

The battery actually is capable of holding more charge than it usually gets.

As I understand it, one of the worst enemies of battery life is discharging the battery to almost zero and then charging it back up to full power (going from near 0% to 100% charged) . From what I read, Toyota has designed the charging system to not allow the battery to fall below 20% of capacity before it is recharged. And when it is recharged it only charges up to about 80%. The battery spends its life operating between 20% and 80% of its capacity, which results in far less strain on the battery and thus longer battery life.

Geeky stuff, I know. But, I find it interesting.
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Old 06-15-2014, 01:21 PM   #88
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I know that battery life has been a concern of some when purchasing a hybrid. I also know that most long time hybrid owners have not had battery problems. Toyota claims the batteries are supposed to last for the life of the vehicle.

I recently read an article on Toyota's hybrid batteries and why they seem to last so long with little significant reduction in their ability to power the electric motor. It seems that Toyota has deliberately engineered the battery and charging system to give the batteries a long life.

The battery actually is capable of holding more charge than it usually gets.

As I understand it, one of the worst enemies of battery life is discharging the battery to almost zero and then charging it back up to full power (going from near 0% to 100% charged) . From what I read, Toyota has designed the charging system to not allow the battery to fall below 20% of capacity before it is recharged. And when it is recharged it only charges up to about 80%. The battery spends its life operating between 20% and 80% of its capacity, which results in far less strain on the battery and thus longer battery life.

Geeky stuff, I know. But, I find it interesting.
Actually reminds me of the battery life saver on my dell laptop that if plugged in will only charge the battery when its is 50% discharged. In particular this is called desktop mode. So since both are Li h batteries both use the same sort of techniques.
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Old 06-15-2014, 02:12 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckanut View Post
I know that battery life has been a concern of some when purchasing a hybrid. .... It seems that Toyota has deliberately engineered the battery and charging system to give the batteries a long life.
... From what I read, Toyota has designed the charging system to not allow the battery to fall below 20% of capacity before it is recharged. And when it is recharged it only charges up to about 80%. The battery spends its life operating between 20% and 80% of its capacity, which results in far less strain on the battery and thus longer battery life.
Right, Tesla and others use a similar approach.

People who may get 2-4 years from their laptop battery are suspicious of the claims, but that's one of the reasons why. A laptop is going to be run between 0%-100% of its specified limits, and that reduces its total lifetime.

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Actually reminds me of the battery life saver on my dell laptop that if plugged in will only charge the battery when its is 50% discharged. In particular this is called desktop mode. So since both are Li h batteries both use the same sort of techniques.
In addition, only charging up to 80% or so really helps. Just sitting with full charge reduces the life-cycle.

I need to look around again for a utility that does this for me. I had some trouble finding one last time I looked, these controls are actually buried in firmware, rather than being controlled so much by the OS (makes sense, you can charge your battery with the computer shut down). So utilities may not be able to get into the actual controls.

If I got really motivated (I won't), I could have the OS write to a port when the battery hits >80% and again when it hits <50%. I could use that signal to control a relay on the power supply. That should do it (when the OS is running).



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Geeky stuff, I know. But, I find it interesting.
Heck, some of us find it interesting because it is geeky.

Also, an older battery from a hybrid or EV, that is no longer performing well enough for vehicle use, can be re-purposed for a stationary application, where the performance is still good enough, it would just take more batteries to get the job done. Could get a few more years out of each pack, before recycling them for the chemicals.

-ERD50
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Old 06-15-2014, 02:25 PM   #90
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We've had a Prius since 2007 and one of the displays shows the amount of charge in the battery as a series of horizontal bars, and certainly does seem to operate between 20% and 80% charge. The only times I ever see it at 100% is when driving in mountain areas after a long time driving downhill. Nice to read about the science behind that.
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Old 06-15-2014, 02:30 PM   #91
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Our Prius is 7 years old, with 60,000 miles on the clock, so it has a few miles left in it, but only 1 more year on its warranty.


Will hybrid batteries last? - MSN Autos

Quote:
But as far as Toyota is concerned, the life of the Prius is defined as 180,000 miles, and the nickel-metal hydride (NiMH) battery is expected to stay perky at least that long. Toyota stands behind that claim with a more-than-respectable battery warranty: 100,000 miles or eight years, in 42 states. In the eight other states that have adopted higher standards, it is 150,000 miles or 10 years.
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Old 06-15-2014, 04:30 PM   #92
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Geeky stuff, I know. But, I find it interesting.
So do I. When I bought the Nikon D7000 camera I wanted a couple of extra batteries and they're a bit pricy since they have a chip in them that talks to the camera about remaining capacity, shots taken, general battery health, etc. So I did some reading.

Found out just what you wrote about: don't run them down all the way, store between 40% and 60% charge, and if you do charge it to 100% start to use it right away and don't store it at 100%.
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