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Old 08-11-2016, 10:16 AM   #41
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Now this looks like a good option... easier for me to do and if it does not work can go to the large plate on the hinge... as it will not destroy anything that the other option would need...


Will have to get some help in getting the deck off and then it will be much easier to get a look at the holes and also see how much good wood I have...


Edit... what are these called? Was trying to look at them but cannot find them online...
Type-D-Insert-Nut

Everbilt 1/4 in. - 20 tpi x 20 mm Zinc-Plated Steel Type-D Insert Nut (4-Pack)-801884 - The Home Depot

1/4-20 is probably too big for the hinges, but this will get you started. You will need the correct size Allen wrench to screw them in. And the wood will need to be in decent shape to hold these in. Might be 'good enough' though.

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Old 08-11-2016, 10:53 AM   #42
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Type-D-Insert-Nut

Everbilt 1/4 in. - 20 tpi x 20 mm Zinc-Plated Steel Type-D Insert Nut (4-Pack)-801884 - The Home Depot

1/4-20 is probably too big for the hinges, but this will get you started. You will need the correct size Allen wrench to screw them in. And the wood will need to be in decent shape to hold these in. Might be 'good enough' though.

-ERD50
I have used these before also:

McMaster-Carr 18-8 Stainless threaded inserts --- 8-32 and 10-24 sizes listed.

If you are going this route, you can increase the overall longevity of the repair by
  1. Screwing the inserts into the wood with epoxy added for bonding (protect inside threads from the epoxy by threading in the correct inside screw, sprayed with PAM cooking spray)
  2. Bedding the screws into the hinges and inserts with 3M5200
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Old 08-11-2016, 02:59 PM   #43
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Type-D-Insert-Nut

Everbilt 1/4 in. - 20 tpi x 20 mm Zinc-Plated Steel Type-D Insert Nut (4-Pack)-801884 - The Home Depot

1/4-20 is probably too big for the hinges, but this will get you started. You will need the correct size Allen wrench to screw them in. And the wood will need to be in decent shape to hold these in. Might be 'good enough' though.

-ERD50

The bolts are 3/8in... I do not understand what you mean by too big for the hinges.
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Old 08-11-2016, 03:01 PM   #44
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The bolts are 3/8in... I do not understand what you mean by too big for the hinges.
I think he meant shank diameter. They look like 10-24 from your photo.
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Old 08-11-2016, 03:11 PM   #45
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I think he meant shank diameter. They look like 10-24 from your photo.
Right, I couldn't really tell from the pictures, and I imagined something small.

So go with the largest bolt shank size that will fit the hinge holes, and use an insert to match (again, this assumes the wood is in pretty good shape,and that the bolts just stripped out of reasonably sound wood).

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Old 08-11-2016, 07:59 PM   #46
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Edit... what are these called? Was trying to look at them but cannot find them online...
Take a look at this search on Amazon- Several different types. Make sure the hole is deep enough if you try to thread in one of these.

https://www.amazon.com/Threaded-Inse...&node=16410701
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Old 08-11-2016, 08:54 PM   #47
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I do not know how to fix this but I do know that overtime something needs to be fixed Break Out Another Thousand (BOAT).
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Old 08-13-2016, 11:37 AM   #48
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....Will have to get some help in getting the deck off and then it will be much easier to get a look at the holes and also see how much good wood I have...
Any update?
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Old 08-13-2016, 12:00 PM   #49
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Any update?

Nope, it is going to take me a bit of time to get this done... one, because I have to get help from my son and second, I just am not motivated to get it done right now.... it is REALLY HOT....
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Old 08-20-2016, 12:21 PM   #50
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OK, an update....

Took off the deck... and it just confirms that the design is REALLY bad... there are also holes in the wood that looks like it was designed for much bigger hinges.... if those hole were used then I am not sure this problem would have happened.... also, if there was any kind of sealer applied it would not happen... last, the wood is only 1/2 inch and the screws do not appear to have gone the full distance...

It looks like I helped in creating this problem... when we would get home I would wash the boat.... seems that if water gets on those back hinges it migrates forward to and then up the screw... so, the wood around where the screws were are not 'solid'... you can tell that there is water damage... however, it does not seem to be that bad either...

So, now I will look to see if I can put in those plugs and if they will hold... but, other things to do so this will be put off for a bit...


BTW, I am not sure they used marine plywood...
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Old 08-20-2016, 02:08 PM   #51
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Glad to hear of the update. May not be all that hard to fix after all since you are about 1/3 of the way done already.
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Old 08-24-2016, 08:55 PM   #52
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Seems like a large area for 1/2" plywood...
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Old 08-24-2016, 09:49 PM   #53
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I do not know much about boats, but machine bolts threading into plywood is pretty bizarre. And 1/2 plywood is really thin without reinforcement at the hinges, no matter what fasteners one uses. I would not be comfortable with just the inserts as shown in previous posts, but they did not even use those. Holy moly! I would feel OK with a piano hinge though, along with many fasteners, as it distributes the load over the whole width.
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Old 08-24-2016, 11:28 PM   #54
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I do not know much about boats, but machine bolts threading into plywood is pretty bizarre. And 1/2 plywood is really thin without reinforcement at the hinges, no matter what fasteners one uses. I would not be comfortable with just the inserts as shown in previous posts, but they did not even use those. Holy moly! I would feel OK with a piano hinge though, along with many fasteners, as it distributes the load over the whole width.

Yea, it is not a great design... but a piano hinge is not an option without some modifications at the hinges are recessed along where the piano hinge would go... I think if I installed one it would raise the deck up just a bit... but thinking about it, I do not have to go the whole length and who cares if it is 1/4 inch raised.... might be an option if the other does not work...

Also, I do think it is a bit strange to have 1/2 inch plywood... but it is padded, so the whole thing is about an inch thick... but, we walk on it and lay on it when we are out on the lake... seems to be strong as we have had 3 adults and a 12yo kid on it at the same time....
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Old 08-25-2016, 01:48 AM   #55
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The plywood might be OK for the load, but not at the attachment point where the bolts are threaded into it. I would not cut a thread into even 1/2" solid oak and expect it to hold a machine bolt.

If there's a metal backing to the other side of plywood, then I would feel more comfortable than just the threaded inserts.
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Old 08-25-2016, 07:32 AM   #56
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I don't have pics but just rebuilt a similar area on my boat about a month ago, full width of the boat but only about 16 or so inches front to back. The wood on my boat was being held together by the foam and vinyl! It was, and is now again, made of marine ply. Mine is held on by an aluminum piano hinge, about 2/3rds the width of the boat. Many stainless wood screws into the ply. Mine is a 27 yr old boat. If I get another 5-10 yrs from this, I will be happy.

Like I mentioned in post #15, I would get a couple of plates of aluminum (suggested steel earlier) , say 8 inches square by ~3/16"" thick and screw them to the "good" wood with about 12 stainless wood screws. Then screw the hinges to tapped holes in the aluminum plates and be done (for a while). There is no way to keep this from occurring again. It is inherent in the design. I think that wood and boat should never be used in the same sentence. But...... you have to work with what is given.
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Old 09-30-2016, 12:13 PM   #57
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I think the easiest solution would be to get SS or brass wood screws as large in diameter as will fit through the hinge and as long as you can given the thickness of the deck material and the hinge... hopefully those will bite into the decking material enough to do the trick. If the hole is rounded out and too loose you can stuff the hole with some folded toothpicks to provide more bite.

Alternatively you could get some fasteners that fit your bolts like the piece on the right in the attached picture and install those into the wood (looks like they install with an hex wrench) and hopefully that should work.



OK... finally got around to trying this out...


And... I do not think the wood is strong enough to hold them....

They are getting a bite, but I can hear the wood and it seems like it not solid... They are holding without any stress, but not sure how strong it is... I think I will try some glue and see if that helps...

Any suggestions on glue.... this is metal to steel... I have not tried it but have read here good reviews of Gorilla Glue....
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Old 09-30-2016, 12:34 PM   #58
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OK... finally got around to trying this out...


And... I do not think the wood is strong enough to hold them....

They are getting a bite, but I can hear the wood and it seems like it not solid... They are holding without any stress, but not sure how strong it is... I think I will try some glue and see if that helps...

Any suggestions on glue.... this is metal to steel... I have not tried it but have read here good reviews of Gorilla Glue....
I doubt that any glue is going to help much. If the inserts seem marginal though, maybe filling with epoxy (JB Weld) while you insert them. You will either need to fill the threads with wax or something to keep them clear of epoxy, or just add the bolts and let the whole thing be epoxied together, but you'll probably need to cut the bolts to get it apart if needed.

I would not use Gorilla Glue.

I really think you are better off with the earlier suggestions - add a larger plate so you can add many screws and spread the forces around, that will also support the wood. Attach the hinges to that plate, maybe add more hinges to spread forces even more. I'd try to get through to the other side if that's not too hard, but a plate screwed to the one side could do it. You could epoxy that as well, for added spread of the forces.

-ERD50
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Old 09-30-2016, 04:03 PM   #59
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Back in post #3, I recommended GitRot, a diluted resin. If the plywood is rotten or de-laminated, this stuff soaks in and hardens to give it back most of the original strength.
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Old 09-30-2016, 06:57 PM   #60
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Off topic, but this afternoon I used a product to rid my pontoon boat seats of mildew that was positively amazing. The product is called Marine 31 Mildew Remover. Spray it on, let it sit about 3 minutes and it essentially dissolves the mildew and you wipe it off, rinse with water and dry.

While it has a slight bleach smell, I think it is more bleachy than it seems as some overspray got on my colored t-shirt and it now has white spots. After I was done I rinsed everything well with water.

Before and after pictures below.

I plan to order more so I'll have some on hand. $18 for a 20 oz bottle that did my 20' pontoon with a little left over. The also have a mildew guard product that I may try , but that is more expensive ($30 for 20 oz). But very reasonable compared to the cost of reupholstering.
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File Type: jpg 20160930_151703.jpg (450.1 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg 20160930_153809.jpg (325.6 KB, 9 views)
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