"Loose change" 9/11 conspiracy

It has spooky, dread-inducing music and everything!

I can't imagine anybody willing to "invest" almost 90 minutes in this BS.
 
samclem said:
It has spooky, dread-inducing music and everything!

I can't imagine anybody willing to "invest" almost 90 minutes in this BS.
Click to expand...

I'm surprised, have you watched more than 10 minutes of it?
There are a few inferences that are not very factual (eg. flight 93), but most of it is pieced together from news briefs and scientific analysis.

MasterBlaster said:
perhaphs someone could give us the 30 second synopsis...
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That would be very hard to do, there is a lot of information on this video. If you have a little time maybe you could watch it in pieces?
 
Veritasophia said:
There are a few inferences that are not very factual (eg. flight 93), but most of it is pieced together from news briefs and scientific analysis.
Click to expand...

What about flight 93 was not factual?
 
No, it landed in Canada because everything up there is better.
 
Whatever opinion of the conclusions of this video you arrive at, it is extremely enlightening as to how information can be manipulated to “prove” a point.

The video is filled with errors and inaccuracies, but if someone is ignorant of that, they might be convinced.

It is essential to realize that just because your favorite media outlet (or your most hated one for that matter) or your government presents information does not mean it’s true.
 
Yes. It was so thought provoking and seemed onto details nobody else wants to talk about .... then they say in 1945 a B-52 crashed into the Empire State Building. If it was a mere oversight in script editing you have to ask how much else is wrong like that? If it's not then its a lie designed to confuse and inflame

( I still want to know where the airplane that hit the Pentagon went)
 
razztazz said:
Yes. It was so thought provoking and seemed onto details nobody else wants to talk about .... then they say in 1945 a B-52 crashed into the Empire State Building. If it was a mere oversight in script editing you have to ask how much else is wrong like that? If it's not then its a lie designed to confuse and inflame.
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I'm sure those who made the movie will say it was a simple transposition since it was a B25 not a B52. Can't expect something this groundbreaking to pay attention to the small details... ;)
 
.
And NORAD's sophisticated radar? It ringed the continent, looking outward for threats, not inward
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I almost called the networks on 9/11 to hire myself out as one of their "USAF (ret)" guys, resident expert in Air defense matter because of all the crap I was hearing about NORAD and the whole air defense system. NORAD had and still has NO such "sophisticated" radar. There is no tye of radar like that for general use. Radar in that environment doesnt work like that.

I'm sure those who made the movie will say it was a simple transposition since it was a B25 not a B52. Can't expect something this groundbreaking to pay attention to the small details...
Click to expand...

Exactly my point. BUT let's face it, both sides have a vested interest in "making people think" a certain way. One "expert" says "This" another "expert" says "That" so there! You're wrong. See? You can't expect everybody to be a mechanical engineer, a materials engineer, an aviation expert, a general physicist, a chemist, an "Air Defense expert"... so it's real easy to push buttons. Some guy says he was there so he knows? So what? Why would anybody expecty people to buy that? Because it's in an article callled "Debuking" something? Conslusive proof of missiles/bombs on airplanes...? Why is *THAT* "proof" conclusive and the other guy's not?

I knew the towers would come down before they did even tho everybody was swearing, even days after the fact, they were built to withstand such an event. (And then acting all confused and sht because they collapsed) They were not. There was an aircrew procedure for collision to ameliorate damage. Full up slamming with a full tank of fuel was NOT part of the damage abatement plan.

You just can't put enough string on a package for some people
 
I'm not sure I really get this conspiracy theory subculture. I guess it's just the ultimate expression of distrust of those in power, but at the same time, it ascribes superhuman powers to those guys.

Which is more likely? That a bunch of smart, rich, pissed-off Jihadists could catch us off guard, or that a president who can't even pronounce "nuclear" could arrange to fake a bunch of cell phone calls from Flight 93 so that ultimately some developer could collect insurance money on the twin towers?
 
And even more unlikely.........  that Clinton and Bush cooperated over the two administrations to make it all happen.  Clinton bringing the terrorists in, providing the flight training, etc., followed up by Bush clearing the way for them to execute the evil deed? 

A good conspiracy can be pretty titillating and interesting to follow along with, but the 9-11 conspiracy theories do seem to really be stretching sensibility........ 

Some authors, talk show hosts and others making good money off of the situation though....... :(
 
razztazz said:
( I still want to know where the airplane that hit the Pentagon went)
Click to expand...

I hope you're not serious. I work in an aircraft hangar. There isn't as much material in a plane as you might think. A few I beams and the wing spars are the main structural elements; the rest is largely sheet metal or snapped-in accessories. When one moving a few hundred miles per hour hits something else the result can be unrecognizable.

A bunch of the guys here are interested in crashes, and at least one guy worked on a few crash investigations and has some photos. Parts of the plane (in these relatively low speed crashes) can seemingly disappear into a tree, dirt or building debris. Heck, a few rows of seats with people in them take up a LOT less room when impacted against a tree, and even at the scene it can take a while to figure out where they went. And the people a couple of rows behind the now missing seats walked out of the front of the plane into a house and on to safety. It's freaky stuff.
 
I fit that description. 20 yrs in aviation. Lots of crashes. Lots of flying. "Hung" around hangers. Anybody asking "where's the plane?" in the Pentagon crash has a legitimate question. SIMPLY looking at the pic doesn't make anything blooming obvious, and SIMPLY listening to an expert (some guy who says....) doesn't answer it prima facia either. That's all I'm saying.


I hope you're not serious. I work in an aircraft hangar. There isn't as much material in a plane as you might think. A few I beams and the wing spars are the main structural elements; the rest is largely sheet metal or snapped-in accessories. When one moving a few hundred miles per hour hits something else the result can be unrecognizable.

A bunch of the guys here are interested in crashes, and at least one guy worked on a few crash investigations and has some photos. Parts of the plane (in these relatively low speed crashes) can seemingly disappear into a tree, dirt or building debris. Heck, a few rows of seats with people in them take up a LOT less room when impacted against a tree, and even at the scene it can take a while to figure out where they went. And the people a couple of rows behind the now missing seats walked out of the front of the plane into a house and on to safety. It's freaky stuff.
Click to expand...
 
razztazz said:
I fit that description. 20 yrs in aviation. Lots of crashes. Lots of flying. "Hung" around hangers. Anybody asking "where's the plane?" in the Pentagon crash has a legitimate question. SIMPLY looking at the pic doesn't make anything blooming obvious, and SIMPLY listening to an expert (some guy who says....) doesn't answer it prima facia either. That's all I'm saying.
Click to expand...

razztazz,
The link posted by wab below discusses "where the plane went" and shows pictures of the wreckage. They have interviews with real people who know something abot these things. It explains the damage to the building. I guess these people are all liars, the eyewitnesses are liars, the photos are doctored, and the "truth" has been discovered by the internet mavens (but is being suppressed! shhhh).
Where do you think the plane is?
 
razztazz,
The link posted by wab below discusses "where the plane went" and shows pictures of the wreckage. They have interviews with real people who know something abot these things. It explains the damage to the building. I guess these people are all liars, the eyewitnesses are liars, the photos are doctored, and the "truth" has been discovered by the internet mavens (but is being suppressed! shhhh).
Where do you think the plane is?
Click to expand...

Stop trying to convince me. I don't doubt any of this. I dont see why you need to try and convince me of something. I am not a conspiracy person. Not that conspiracies dont exist but you have to keep the lies and "moving parts" to a minumum. BUT nothing these people in the article who allegedly were there need to know anything or say anything true. They will be belived by some and doubted by others

As far as this finally relased footage... the question will be "Why did they hold onto it this long"? To doctor it up?
 
I found a debunker link specifically aimed at this video, but I'm not sure it's any faster to look through this than it is to watch the video:

http://xkcd.com/911_loose_change_viewer_guide.pdf

I also downloaded the newly released security videos. It's not movie-speed frames, couple or a few frames a second. All you see is part of the fuselage for one frame and then the fire and smoke.

I remember at the time that United 93 went down I thought it must have been shot down, even after initial reports stating otherwise. So I can see how people might form their own opinions.
 
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