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Old 09-25-2011, 01:33 PM   #21
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You guys all have great points- and tomorrow the thread titles will be as screwed up as they often are now.

If someone managed to become a millionaire mangling the language, what would make us expect anything to change?

Ha
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Old 09-25-2011, 01:49 PM   #22
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haha versus LOL!
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Old 09-25-2011, 01:58 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack View Post
Why use preventative when preventive will do?
When it's a noun. See
Quote:
Familiarity information: PREVENTIVE used as a noun is uncommon.
What does preventive mean? definition, meaning and pronunciation (Free English Language Dictionary)
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:21 PM   #24
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While we are at it, could we not pronounce the "t" in "often?"
Did I place the "?" correctly? Did I place "correctly" correctly?
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:35 PM   #25
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So what luzer got lose and loose wrong?
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Old 09-25-2011, 03:02 PM   #26
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Three cheers for the grammar police!
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Old 09-25-2011, 03:14 PM   #27
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Never use a big word when a diminutive alternative will suffice.


Plain Language Humor: How to Write Good
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Old 09-25-2011, 03:30 PM   #28
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And I'd like to add -

your is possessive as in your shirt looks nice

you're is a contraction for you are

their is possessive as in i like their car

they're is a contraction for they are

there is a reference to location as in the book is over there

too is used to indicate "also" as in I saw that too

hopefully we know how to use to and two!

Your used as a contraction and there used instead of their is rampant on boards. I don't know (not no) if people are so poorly educated that they are not aware of this or if it is just lazy typing and not realizing they made a mistake. Either way this drives me crazy, yes it is a short trip!
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Old 09-25-2011, 03:46 PM   #29
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While we are at it, could we not pronounce the "t" in "often?"
No, the "t" pronunciation is vulgar.
Quote:
Often AWF-in or AHF-in. Do not pronounce the t.
Before I give you my two cents on the t in often, let’s take a look at what various authorities have said about it since the late 18th century.
John Walker (1791), whose Critical Pronouncing Dictionary was one of the most respected and popular references both in England and America well into the 19th century, declared that “in often and soften the t is silent.”
“The sounding of the t,” proclaims the legendary H.W. Fowler in Modern English Usage (1926), “which as the OED says is ‘not recognized by the dictionaries,’ is practised by two oddly consorted classes—the academic speakers who affect a more precise enunciation than their neighbours…& the uneasy half-literates who like to prove that they can spell….”
“The t in glisten is silent, even as it is in castle and often,” says Frank H. Vizetelly (1929), editor of Funk & Wagnalls New Standard (1913), “yet one occasionally hears pedants and provincials pronounce them [GLIS-ten] and [AWF-ten]. No pronouncing dictionary with a reputation to lose ever sounds the t in these words.”
“You don’t want a t in here any more than in soften,” advises Alfred H. Holt (1937).
Webster 2 (1934), which sanctions only AWF-in, notes that “the pronunciation [AWF-tin], until recently generally considered as more or less illiterate, is not uncommon among the educated in some sections, and is often used in singing.”
According to Random House II (1987),
OFTEN was pronounced with a t- sound until the 17th century, when a pronunciation without the (t) came to predominate in the speech of the educated, in both North America and Great Britain, and the earlier pronunciation fell into disfavor. Common use of a spelling pronunciation has since restored the (t) for many speakers, and today [AWF-in] and [AWF-tin]…exist side by side. Although it is still sometimes criticized, OFTEN with a (t) is now so widely heard from educated speakers that it has become fully standard once again.
“Nowadays,” says R.W. Burchfield (1996), editor of the OED 2 (1989), “many standard speakers use both [AWF-in] and [AWF-tin], but the former pronunciation is the more common of the two.
What is going on here? After two hundred years of censure, has the t in often scratched and clawed its way back into acceptability? I would caution those who might be consoled by the comments of Random House II and Burchfield to heed the admonitions of the past and avoid pronouncing the t. Current dictionaries, including Random House II, do not give priority to AWF-tin, and it is much less common in educated speech and far more often disapproved of by cultivated speakers—particularly teachers of English, drama, and speech—than Random House II makes it appear. In 1932 the English lexicographer Henry Cecil Wyld called AWF-tin “vulgar” and “sham-refined,” and today the bad odor of class-conscious affectation still clings to it as persistently as ever. As if that were not enough, analogy is entirely unsupportive: no one pronounces the t in soften, listen, fasten, moisten, hasten, chasten, christen, and Christmas—so, once and for all, let’s do away with the eccentric AWF-tin.
Do You Speak American . What Speech Do We Like Best? . Beastly | PBS
from The Big Book Of Beastly Mispronunciations: The Complete Opinionated Guide For The Careful Speaker by Charles Harrington Elster
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Old 09-25-2011, 03:58 PM   #30
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No, the "t" pronunciation is vulgar.
It's not vulgar, it's just the way some folks were taught to pronounce the word "often".

First the grammar guard, now the pronunciation police?
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Old 09-25-2011, 04:01 PM   #31
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And never trust anyone that uses the word utilize.
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Old 09-25-2011, 04:35 PM   #32
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It's not vulgar, it's just the way some folks were taught to pronounce the word "often".
Does the fact that some folks were taught something show that it isn't vulgar?
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Definition of VULGAR

1
a : generally used, applied, or accepted
Vulgar - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
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Old 09-25-2011, 05:51 PM   #33
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Mom is that u?
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Old 09-25-2011, 08:00 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by redduck View Post
While we are at it, could we not pronounce the "t" in "often?"
Did I place the "?" correctly? Did I place "correctly" correctly?
Or the "h" in "habanero"?

I put the "?" after the closing " because the "?" ends the sentence. But what do I know?
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Old 09-25-2011, 08:44 PM   #35
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Does the fact that some folks were taught something show that it isn't vulgar?
You used vulgar in a condescending way and I objected, and still do.

There are many ways to pronounce and spell words, including "often". So to you, redduck, and everyone else who thinks there is only one way to pronounce "often", I can only say the silent "t" is off-ten the preferred but not the sole way of pronouncing that word.
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Old 09-25-2011, 08:44 PM   #36
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Please kindly remember that some participants to the discussions on this website are non native speakers. I am a non native English speaker and apologize if some of my posts in the past have been unclear or have included typos.
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Sorry for the interruption. Now back to your regularly scheduled program......
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Old 09-25-2011, 08:53 PM   #37
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Please kindly remember that some participants to the discussions on this website are non native speakers. I am a non native English speaker and apologize if some of my posts in the past have been unclear or have included typos.
Same here. I speak southern.
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Old 09-25-2011, 09:21 PM   #38
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So to you, redduck, and everyone else who thinks there is only one way to pronounce "often", I can only say the silent "t" is off-ten the preferred but not the sole way of pronouncing that word.
Inasmuch as I earlier quoted an extended account of the history of the two pronunciations of "often", I don't see how you could reasonably conclude that I think there is only one way to pronounce it. Once upon a time it was said with "t", then the "t" was lost in pronunciation, then some people, seeing it in the spelling, started to say it again. That's what happened.
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Old 09-25-2011, 10:47 PM   #39
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Please kindly remember that some participants to the discussions on this website are non native speakers. I am a non native English speaker and apologize if some of my posts in the past have been unclear or have included typos.
Really? I'd never have guessed! Your posts are always concise, grammatically correct, and to the point.

Now should I have put in that last comma, or not?
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Old 09-25-2011, 10:52 PM   #40
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Well, I almost always put that last comma in, but, I think it might kinda' be incorrect (or at least not as correct as leaving it out).
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