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Madoff Clawback
Old 12-03-2018, 11:49 AM   #1
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Madoff Clawback

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-ama...s&page=1&pos=1

Above is a very interesting article on the guys in charge of settling accounts after Bernie Madoff's scheme was expose. It seems they have restored about 75% of the originally invested money people actually lost.

Personally, I find this amazing. I had thought at one point if the victims got back 20% they would be doing well. Good for them. I can only imagine all the amended income tax forms that must have been filed thanks to Mr. Madoff's scheme.

FWIW, the two guys doing this are 77 and 74 years of age.

Quote:
Irving Picard, clean-shaven and measured of speech, is 77. He is the court-appointed trustee who oversees a labyrinthine effort to recover money stolen from investors by Bernard L. Madoff, currently serving a 150-year sentence for running the most massive Ponzi scheme in history. David Sheehan, gray-bearded, is 74. By far the more talkative, he is chief counsel to Mr. Picard, in the latter’s role as Madoff trustee. Since their appointment on Dec. 15, 2008, the two have done nothing else, day after day, but look for and claw back ill-gotten Madoff loot.
and then there is this:

Quote:
they each get paid around $1,000 an hour.
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Old 12-03-2018, 11:50 AM   #2
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Thousand bucks an hour? Well, that might bring me out of retirement. Or not...it could be *just* a "side hustle"
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Old 12-03-2018, 12:09 PM   #3
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Results count. Fortunately for the victims they were not on contingency!

They are work the $1K an hour.

In several instances they have gone up against the brightest talent than money could buy. No one likes to return money...especially when in runs into the hundreds of millions of dollars.
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Old 12-03-2018, 12:11 PM   #4
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I had two friends in Peru that lost $2 million and $20 million respectively. They are both dead now and never mentioned receiving anything back. I suspect they never filed claims in the "first place" to avoid having to answer embarrassing questions?
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Old 12-03-2018, 05:22 PM   #5
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Any money recovered like money found in the laundry.

But the time value of money i.e the compound interest list is really painful.
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Old 12-03-2018, 06:09 PM   #6
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This makes some interesting reading
http://www.madofftrustee.com/recoveries-04.html
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Old 12-03-2018, 09:58 PM   #7
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The recovery is from a bunch of companies.... some had dirty hands in the process and some were just duped but still had to pay a kings ransom...


I think some of the banks should have fought the claims... but since I do not know the law on this sort of thing it could have been they did not have a leg to stand on...
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Old 12-03-2018, 10:04 PM   #8
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This was a very interesting read.

So the $1000+ per hour tab is being picked up by the SIPC!
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Old 12-04-2018, 09:47 AM   #9
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Couldn’t get past the WSJ paywall. Picard is a legend. Interestingly, being a fairly “pure” ponzi probably enabled higher recovery due to no losses from risky investments. The only losses were personal expenses and overhead to keep the scam running.
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Old 12-04-2018, 10:01 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazz4cash View Post
Couldn’t get past the WSJ paywall. Picard is a legend. Interestingly, being a fairly “pure” ponzi probably enabled higher recovery due to no losses from risky investments. The only losses were personal expenses and overhead to keep the scam running.
I had luck creating a private browsing window then searching for the article title.
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Old 12-04-2018, 10:35 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazz4cash View Post
Couldn’t get past the WSJ paywall. Picard is a legend. Interestingly, being a fairly “pure” ponzi probably enabled higher recovery due to no losses from risky investments. The only losses were personal expenses and overhead to keep the scam running.
I didn't try very hard to get past the paywall either. I wondered how much Madoff squirreled away to family members and off shore and other places. Did they go after that stuff too? If his wife had jewelry or assets in her name only, could they show it came from that money and seize that?
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Old 12-04-2018, 10:38 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by RunningBum View Post
I didn't try very hard to get past the paywall either. I wondered how much Madoff squirreled away to family members and off shore and other places. Did they go after that stuff too? If his wife had jewelry or assets in her name only, could they show it came from that money and seize that?

They did seize a lot of the assets... I think they said that since there was no legitimate business then all assets were ill gotten...


They still left her enough to live off though...
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Old 12-04-2018, 10:49 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by RunningBum View Post
I didn't try very hard to get past the paywall either. I wondered how much Madoff squirreled away to family members and off shore and other places. Did they go after that stuff too? If his wife had jewelry or assets in her name only, could they show it came from that money and seize that?
According to the article it was easy. The proceeds had been reinvested in Apple stock. So it was easy to identify.

The widow was eager to get rid of any Madoff ill-gotten gains.
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Old 12-04-2018, 11:04 AM   #14
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My understanding is the Mrs. Picower made the decision to give back the money for several reason, including the simple fact that it was the right thing to do. She is philanthropic and I hear still fabulously wealthy even after returning the Madoff gains.

Some of the banks and investments institutions apparently were fearful of falling under the "You guys should have reasonably known something was wrong" rules. I guess its the equivalent of Joe Sixpack buying a new in the box $600 TV for $125 cash from the back of somebody's old pickup truck in the deserted parking lot of a failed strip mall.
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