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Re: Make Money at Roulette!
Old 02-05-2005, 03:22 AM   #21
 
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Re: Make Money at Roulette!

Hello salaryguru! You have posted some good stuff,
but "It's amazing to me that Las Vegas doesn't go broke" is not your finest hour. Did you forget the smiley face?

JG
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Re: Make Money at Roulette!
Old 02-05-2005, 07:12 PM   #22
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Re: Make Money at Roulette!

Quote:
Hello salaryguru! *You have posted some good stuff,
but "It's amazing to me that Las Vegas doesn't go broke" is not your finest hour. *Did you forget the smiley face? *

JG
oops. . .
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Re: Make Money at Roulette!
Old 02-07-2005, 06:24 AM   #23
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Re: Make Money at Roulette!

I guess i just dont believe that's true salaryguru though you have been led to believe otherwise.

My understanding is that all of the possible scams that can be used in a casino have been discovered and adjustments have already been made to eliminate those. The house always has the odds in its favor.

Its possible that you've just experienced one of the phenemenon's that casino's rely upon; that being that people have a tendancy to talk at length about the times they hit it big, but, conversely, tend to say very little or nothing at all when they lose. If that's true, and i believe it is generally true, then it might very well seem that these frenquent players you speak of win more than they lose, though reality is likely otherwise.

I could see how a gambling addict might succumb to convinently forgetting those nights they lost while reforcing to themselves and everyone else the times they hit it big. Classic denial.
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Re: Make Money at Roulette!
Old 02-07-2005, 06:38 AM   #24
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Re: Make Money at Roulette!

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Its possible that you've just experienced one of the phenemenon's that casino's rely upon; that being that people have a tendancy to talk at length about the times they hit it big, but, conversely, tend to say very little or nothing at all when they lose. *If that's true, and i believe it is generally true, then it might very well seem that these frenquent players you speak of win more than they lose, though reality is likely otherwise.
This is the same phenomenon that happens with market timing, investment newsletters, and portfolio managers. *It's probably even magnified on the internet because we have less context to put the comments into.
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Re: Make Money at Roulette!
Old 02-07-2005, 06:54 AM   #25
 
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Re: Make Money at Roulette!

True!
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Old 02-07-2005, 07:12 AM   #26
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Don't believe the hype.

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My understanding is that all of the possible scams that can be used in a casino have been discovered and adjustments have already been made to eliminate those. * The house always has the odds in its favor.
Sounds just like a classic EMH debate.

The casino loses its edge by 0.1-0.2% at basic-strategy card-counting blackjack with progressive betting. Add in shuffletracking (admittedly a PITA) and the house is at a 0.5% disadvantage. Add in any freebies like clubs or comps and the house is going to lose in the long run.

The casinos don't care about losing these particular edges because BJ is popular enough to draw a big crowd of uninformed players who happily lose on their own schemes. Heck, the casinos even sell basic strategy cards in the gift shops and let players use them at the tables. Just try to double down outside of basic strategy-- most dealers will argue with you on the first attempt.

I suspect that there are unheralded "players" who consistently grind out a living with their card skills. More power to 'em-- it's hard work and I suspect that they could do better in just about any job paying more than minimum wage. There's also the statistical certainty of losing five or six figures into a dealer's winning run before statistics reasserts itself. But the "free drinks" may be too tempting to pass up.

After weeks of reading & practice, I've played Vegas blackjack twice for a total of a couple hours-- losing $95 at a single-deck $10 table and winning $135 at a multiple-deck $5 table. I'm also up several thousand on my Hoyle Casino '99 CD, but I started that with a $5000 stake and $25 bets. It's more entertaining than Windows Solitaire.

I'll go back to Vegas someday but I appear to be too lazy to get around to it. The eye candy & human drama was wonderful but I despise the second-hand smoke, the casino noise, and the chiseling waiters/hotel staff. Then there's the mechanics of closing up the house, arranging kid & pet care, redeye charters, and 3 PM checkin times. It also bothered me that I got a seat whenever I wanted to play but spouse (who'd rather watch) had to stand. If the casinos had given a spouse's seat for free, they'd have doubled our play time. (Maybe they knew what they were doing after all.) Thank goodness Hawaii has no (legalized) gambling!

I think I'd do best on a solo trip with a $10K stake spread out over 20 $500 sessions, each of up to eight hours (or until the stake runs out).

Whoa, waitaminnit, that sounds too much like work! But if any of you are interested in subsidizing a low-budget documentary for the cable channels, let me know...

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Re: Make Money at Roulette!
Old 02-07-2005, 09:23 AM   #27
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Re: Make Money at Roulette!

When I was out for entertainment at the casino's, I'd sit at essentially a horserace electronic game. The bets were on the order of .20 apiece. I'd load in 20.00 and let the drinks flow. At 200 AM the casino served a breakfast/dinner free. So I figured I was able to have a night of drinks and dinner for about 20 bucks. I would always stay until I lost everything or won big. I never won at that game. Typically if i went to the bar and drank and sat around talking I would go through $50-$100, so i figured I made out cheaper and had a little more fun.
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Re: Make Money at Roulette!
Old 02-07-2005, 12:11 PM   #28
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Re: Make Money at Roulette!

Quote:
I guess i just dont believe that's true salaryguru though you have been led to believe otherwise.

. . . *Classic denial.
I was being facetious -- just forgot to put the smiley faces in the post.
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Re: Make Money at Roulette!
Old 02-07-2005, 05:28 PM   #29
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Re: Make Money at Roulette!

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I was being facetious -- just forgot to put the smiley faces in the post. *
This is a lesson to me. I guess on the internet you have to be careful about assuming any commonality of understanding. Compare Joe Doaks who "always wins" with the Bellagio. Who appears more prosperous?

I have a long term winning % playing selected football games, and the NCAA tourney--which I love. I especially like Reno at that time of year. A nice downscale place like the Cal-Neva. But I'm glad I don't have to make a living at it. Too many games have well made lines, so you sit them out. But you can only sit out so much until you have to really bet big when you see something you like. Then you lose (happens a lot) and you feel horrible because you just dropped $5000 or $10,000 on a football game. But you have a system so you bet again, and again- and now you are down $30,000 and you start wondering if your angle is kaput. It's like what happens mentally during a protracted bear market, when rallies start and suck you in, only to fail repeatedly.

I am too much a low-roller to make a go of this stuff.

I have never won over time at NBA basketball, so I quit that one. And I always lose at all casino games, so I hardly play at all.

Any of you who live near a casino tried poker?

Mikey
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Re: Make Money at Roulette!
Old 02-08-2005, 04:02 AM   #30
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Re: Make Money at Roulette!

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Any of you who live near a casino tried poker?
I tried it a couple of times. Several years ago I sat down at a 7-card stud table, but I think I left after one or two hands because I was so nervous I couldn't keep up with the game.

Within the last year I tried again at a hold 'em table, but I only had around $100 to start with. I sat for a few hours; I didn't get any good cards so I folded before the flop a lot, and the blinds were starting to eat away. As my stake dwindled I got a halfway decent hand or two but not enough to win one hand.

You really need $500-$1000 minimum to play at the cheap tables I think, just to be able to wait for a good hand to bet on. Plus I'm not really a good player, so I'm almost certainly outclassed by someone at the table.

For me it looked a lot more fun on TV and in the Yahoo! Games Hold 'Em room. I don't plan on trying casino poker again soon.

And you don't get comps playing poker, so I didn't get my "free" steak dinner that trip.
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Re: Make Money at Roulette!
Old 02-08-2005, 02:16 PM   #31
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Re: Make Money at Roulette!

On our one and only trip to Vegas in the 70's I
dropped about $200 at the blackjack table (big
money for me) while Lyn played the nickle slots.
She boarded the airplane carrying a cup full of
nickles thinking we had WON! I Never had the
nerve to tell her until much later.

Cheers,

Charlie
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Re: Make Money at Roulette!
Old 02-08-2005, 03:51 PM   #32
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Re: Make Money at Roulette!

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You really need $500-$1000 minimum to play at the cheap tables I think, just to be able to wait for a good hand to bet on.
This kind of stat says to me that a guy really wants to know his poker before sitting down. Otherwise, it will be hard to stay calm and focused.

Mikey
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Re: Get Hosed at Roulette!
Old 03-20-2005, 11:23 AM   #33
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Re: Get Hosed at Roulette!

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On Roulette, just find a table that have low table bid minimums (like $5 dollars), and just start out betting 5. *If you lose, bet 10. *If you lose, bet 20. *If you lose, bet 40, and so on and so forth. * Once you eventually win, (say you won at 40) the $40 pays back the lost 5, 10, and 20 and gives you $5 dollars profit. * Go back to $5 dollars, wash rinse and repeat. *Stand there and make $5 dollars at a time all night long.
I've heard of that as a Baccarat strategy. Unfortunately, it takes only a small number of losses in a row before you hit the table's maximum bet and you have no chance to recoup your bets. This is a way to get rich slow or get poor immediately.
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