Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-01-2013, 11:29 AM   #21
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lafayette
Posts: 267
I follow MMM's blog--that's where I found this one!

I know he lives in a low cost of living area, so was able to buy/pay for a house fairly easily. A lot easier than where I live in the bay area anyway.

But one thing I don't get: in the interview he says that his rental house generates $25,000 in income after expenses. That would mean the rent is probably close to $2500 a month? Seems awfully high for a low COL area....maybe it's a mansion he made out of a shack?? With only $1000 worth of materials from craigslist?
__________________

__________________
gardenfun is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 05-01-2013, 11:30 AM   #22
gone traveling
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Fairfax, VA
Posts: 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud View Post

So, anybody who is promoting themselves for whatever reason looks to me like they are trying to make money... which is work... which means you are not retired...
Can we nip this right in the bud, because it majorly derailed the thread over at Bogleheads. The definition of "retired" is certainly different for everyone. Some people seem to think that you can't possibly earn a dime in income and consider yourself retired. Others say that they work half a day a week at the local coffee shop and consider themselves retired. Others manage a rental property so that they can have enough cashflow to be "retired" from corporate work.

I think that we'd all be better off talking about the merits of LBYM and investing, and MMM does that pretty well. Whether or not you think he's doing it purely for self-promoting reasons or not, the message is still the same as many people in these forums.
__________________

__________________
bo_knows is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 12:03 PM   #23
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,327
Quote:
Originally Posted by haha View Post
Perhaps because he is as phony as a $3 bill?

Ha
I have skimmed the blog and it seems that he was retired, never having to work again, on 800K net worth in his 30s with a family of 3, and the 800K included the value of his own house. His expenses do not include ever having anyone in the family ever get any serious illness (or bike or car accidents) and having to pay something like 10K deductibles a year for 10 - 60 years, which would come to 100K - 600K just for the life time medical out of pocket maxes alone.

Trying running those numbers through Firecalc, (even without leaving a cushion for major medical deductibles over the next 60 years among 3 family members) and see what success rate it gets you.

Do I have that right? I am not sure. There seem to be various vague numbers thrown around the blog without all of the specific details pulled together in one place.

Like the $25K net income on a rental house. In my area 700K houses rent for $2,500 a month, which comes out to 30K a year, less property taxes, insurance and maintenance costs. If maintenance costs are a few thousand a year, property taxes are 1% and insurance 1K, then the net would be 19K. But it would take a house worth almost all of his net worth, at least in my geographic area, to net $19K, which is 6K short of the $25K that he needs to cover all of his living expenses. And that still doesn't leave any money left over in the net worth numbers to cover the cost of a house of his own.
__________________
daylatedollarshort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 12:10 PM   #24
Full time employment: Posting here.
ronocnikral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 852
Quote:
Originally Posted by daylatedollarshort View Post
I have skimmed the blog and it seems that he was retired, never having to work again, on 800K net worth in his 30s with a family of 3, and the 800K included the value of his own house. His expenses do not include ever having anyone in the family ever get any serious illness (or bike or car accidents) and having to pay something like 10K deductibles a year for 10 - 60 years, which would come to 100K - 600K just for the life time medical out of pocket maxes alone.

Trying running those numbers through Firecalc, (even without leaving a cushion for major medical deductibles over the next 60 years among 3 family members) and see what success rate it gets you.

Do I have that right? I am not sure. There seem to be various vague numbers thrown around the blog without all of the specific details pulled together in one place.

Like the $25K net income on a rental house. In my area 700K houses rent for $2,500 a month, which comes out to 30K a year, less property taxes, insurance and maintenance costs. If maintenance costs are a few thousand a year, property taxes are 1% and insurance 1K, then the net would be 19K. But it would take a house worth almost all of his net worth, at least in my geographic area, to net $19K, which is 6K short of the $25K that he needs to cover all of his living expenses. And that still doesn't leave any money left over in the net worth numbers to cover the cost of a house of his own.
he also does construction work when he "wants" to. he'll also blow an O-ring if you challenge him on being retired or not. and certainly, there is some component of vanity...

The one take away I get is how difficult it can be to hang 'em up at a young age. while he may only work when he "wants" to, he probably "wants" to due to the uncertainty the future holds. Sure, he doesn't need the money today, but how does saving it and letting it build go into the equation?

I have much more respect for someone like John Greaney.
__________________
ronocnikral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 12:12 PM   #25
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,327
Quote:
Originally Posted by bo_knows View Post
Can we nip this right in the bud, because it majorly derailed the thread over at Bogleheads. The definition of "retired" is certainly different for everyone. Some people seem to think that you can't possibly earn a dime in income and consider yourself retired. Others say that they work half a day a week at the local coffee shop and consider themselves retired. Others manage a rental property so that they can have enough cashflow to be "retired" from corporate work.

I think that we'd all be better off talking about the merits of LBYM and investing, and MMM does that pretty well. Whether or not you think he's doing it purely for self-promoting reasons or not, the message is still the same as many people in these forums.
According to the first definition of retired in Google, it means "Having left one's job and ceased to work."
__________________
daylatedollarshort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 12:17 PM   #26
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,387
I believe that while it may be possible to change water into wine, it is not a frequent occurrence.

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 12:33 PM   #27
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 13,290
Quote:
Originally Posted by bo_knows View Post
Can we nip this right in the bud, because it majorly derailed the thread over at Bogleheads. The definition of "retired" is certainly different for everyone. Some people seem to think that you can't possibly earn a dime in income and consider yourself retired. Others say that they work half a day a week at the local coffee shop and consider themselves retired. Others manage a rental property so that they can have enough cashflow to be "retired" from corporate work.

I think that we'd all be better off talking about the merits of LBYM and investing, and MMM does that pretty well. Whether or not you think he's doing it purely for self-promoting reasons or not, the message is still the same as many people in these forums.
Heck, I have not problem with people making money on the side when they are retired.... I had a BIL who did it for many years... ran a small yard light installation company... did it only when he wanted.... I would call him retired...

As I said, I do not know how much money MMM is getting blogging... I have seen on TV that a good number of people make really good money doing it... if MMM is one, then blogging is his job... kind of like writing for a newspaper... you have to crank out a certain number of columns to keep your readings coming back... If he gets NO money (or very little) from his blog, I would say he is retired and can do a few jobs on the side, make money and still be 'retired'....

As I said, I just do not know.... but I do think that there is a distinction that does matter... the millionaire mommy was clearly working even though she seemed to indicate she was not... all she did was promote herself and her writing... I do not see that with MMM, but I really do not know if he is or is not....
__________________
Texas Proud is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 12:41 PM   #28
gone traveling
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Fairfax, VA
Posts: 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud View Post
Heck, I have not problem with people making money on the side when they are retired.... I had a BIL who did it for many years... ran a small yard light installation company... did it only when he wanted.... I would call him retired...

As I said, I do not know how much money MMM is getting blogging... I have seen on TV that a good number of people make really good money doing it... if MMM is one, then blogging is his job... kind of like writing for a newspaper... you have to crank out a certain number of columns to keep your readings coming back... If he gets NO money (or very little) from his blog, I would say he is retired and can do a few jobs on the side, make money and still be 'retired'....

As I said, I just do not know.... but I do think that there is a distinction that does matter... the millionaire mommy was clearly working even though she seemed to indicate she was not... all she did was promote herself and her writing... I do not see that with MMM, but I really do not know if he is or is not....
I don't want to sound like I'm a rabid defender here, but there have been a few posts of his indicating that he is using the blog revenue to form some sort of charity. Also, he was making money on Credit Card referrals from his website, but the card company didn't like a word in his motto plastered on the top of the website "Badassity". So, instead of bowing to the revenue generator of those referrals, he just stopped working with them.

Whether or not you believe that he uses the blogging money is on you... but doesn't Nords have a blog and a book that he says goes to charity? How is this any different?
__________________
bo_knows is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 12:51 PM   #29
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
heeyy_joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Madeira Beach Fl
Posts: 1,403
First I was tired then I was re-tired. Time for my nap.
__________________
_______________________________________________
"A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and goes to bed at night and in between does what he wants to do" --Bob Dylan.
heeyy_joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 12:52 PM   #30
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by bo_knows View Post
Also, he was making money on Credit Card referrals from his website, but the card company didn't like a word in his motto plastered on the top of the website "Badassity". So, instead of bowing to the revenue generator of those referrals, he just stopped working with them.
But have you noticed that there is no word "Badassity" across the title anymore? It is currently hidden on the coin.
Also, your post is incorrect and you might want to re-read the blog post about it. Chase dumped him while he was trying to explain why he has this word in there. It had nothing to do with "MMM stopped working with them".
__________________
hsv_climber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 12:58 PM   #31
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,387
This thread reminds of something P.T. Barnum is supposed to have said. Anyone remember what it was?

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 12:58 PM   #32
gone traveling
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Fairfax, VA
Posts: 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by hsv_climber View Post
But have you noticed that there is no word "Badassity" across the title anymore? It is currently hidden on the coin.
Also, your post is incorrect and you might want to re-read the blog post about it. Chase dumped him while he was trying to explain why he has this word in there. It had nothing to do with "MMM stopped working with them".
I think that he had the option of removing the word and continuing to work with them... and he didn't.

I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that top banner is changed on a regular schedule. He had a contest to have a new banner put up there, and he's rotating through the entries because he liked so many of them.

Either way, I don't really care. I just find it hard to believe people are tearing into a guy who's primary message is "LBYM". That's what I get most out of it.
__________________
bo_knows is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 12:59 PM   #33
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by haha View Post
This thread reminds of something P.T. Barnum is supposed to have said. Anyone remember what it was?

Ha
Sorry, I am not old enough to remember him
__________________
hsv_climber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 01:11 PM   #34
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Just North of Boston
Posts: 522
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud View Post
As I said, I do not know how much money MMM is getting blogging... I have seen on TV that a good number of people make really good money doing it... if MMM is one, then blogging is his job... kind of like writing for a newspaper... you have to crank out a certain number of columns to keep your readings coming back... If he gets NO money (or very little) from his blog, I would say he is retired and can do a few jobs on the side, make money and still be 'retired'....

Funny thing is he probably "blogs" and posts less than a lot of people on this site... only he collects he revenue from all of the ad click-thrus. Vs the owner of ER.org who makes the money.
__________________
ChiliPepr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 01:11 PM   #35
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by bo_knows View Post
Either way, I don't really care. I just find it hard to believe people are tearing into a guy who's primary message is "LBYM". That's what I get most out of it.
People are tearing him up for a few things:

- "He is phony". haha said it best. His $25k / year budget is also phony, since he does not account for many things, including Hawaiian vacations, etc.

- His message does not match to what he does. He tells you "LBYM" while he is taking vacations to exotic places. There is nothing wrong with the vacations, but message & substance don't match.
He tells you to dump a car and ride a bicycle, yet he drives a car across the country and back (Den to Toronto) himself.

- He tells you to "save the planet" and "reduce consumption", yet his CO2 footprint last year from travel was much higher than for an average American family.

- His advice about 4% SWR is bad.

On a positive note: there are a few good posts on his blog and there are plenty of very good posts on his forums.
__________________
hsv_climber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 01:17 PM   #36
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 63
As to his rent - I have a property that grosses 3k/ month that I purchased/ rehabbed for 205k total. I can easily see him having one property bring that amount of net $'s in as I expect mine could in a few years.

As a younger guy, I read his blog fairly regularly. I would definitely been on his path, living off rents by 35, etc but I'm getting married shortly. The fiancÚ relates better to this forum's early retirement strategies. Lots of value in both!
__________________
Papa bear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 01:50 PM   #37
gone traveling
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Fairfax, VA
Posts: 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by hsv_climber View Post
People are tearing him up for a few things:

- "He is phony". haha said it best. His $25k / year budget is also phony, since he does not account for many things, including Hawaiian vacations, etc.
I don't want to do your homework for you, but when you attack someone like this, you really should look to see if he does account for these things. He accounts for vacations in all of his previous budgets, and had a very detailed blog post about his costs in Hawaii. Are you just making this stuff up?

Quote:
- His message does not match to what he does. He tells you "LBYM" while he is taking vacations to exotic places. There is nothing wrong with the vacations, but message & substance don't match.
The guy went to hawaii for 49 days on $2800 and will probably still have the same yearly budget... how is that not the same message? He worked around many obstacles to achieve that vacation in a LBYM manner...

Quote:
He tells you to dump a car and ride a bicycle, yet he drives a car across the country and back (Den to Toronto) himself.
His entire family spent $680 on gas for the entire year last year... He almost exclusively uses that car for such trips and bikes locally. I don't follow your logic.

Quote:
- He tells you to "save the planet" and "reduce consumption", yet his CO2 footprint last year from travel was much higher than for an average American family.
I personally haven't seen that message on the site, but I don't really look for it. I have no stake in that claim.

Quote:
- His advice about 4% SWR is bad.
That's the first piece of useful criticism, in my opinion. Talking about actual strategies of ER, rather than ad hominem attacks on the guy.
__________________
bo_knows is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 01:57 PM   #38
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by bo_knows View Post
I don't want to do your homework for you, but when you attack someone like this, you really should look to see if he does account for these things. He accounts for vacations in all of his previous budgets, and had a very detailed blog post about his costs in Hawaii. Are you just making this stuff up?

The guy went to hawaii for 49 days on $2800 and will probably still have the same yearly budget... how is that not the same message? He worked around many obstacles to achieve that vacation in a LBYM manner...
I've read it, but did you?
His budget line clearly states "we ignore Hawaiian air ticket because it was paid by the blog". How is it accounting in the budget?
He also did illegal activity with the lodging. If you are a contractor and your client provides you lodging instead of pay then you need to account that, report the proper value to IRS and then account for that in your budget.
Otherwise, the company that I work for, can just deliver food to my house, pay my mortgage and we can skip the money & the IRS.

Here it is from IRS website:

Quote:
Non-cash Income Taxable income may be in a form other than cash. One example of this is bartering, which is an exchange of property or services. The fair market value of goods and services exchanged is fully taxable and must be included as income on Form 1040 of both parties.
http://www.irs.gov/uac/Taxable-or-Non-Taxable-Income%3F
__________________
hsv_climber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 02:05 PM   #39
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 13,290
Quote:
Originally Posted by bo_knows View Post
I don't want to sound like I'm a rabid defender here, but there have been a few posts of his indicating that he is using the blog revenue to form some sort of charity. Also, he was making money on Credit Card referrals from his website, but the card company didn't like a word in his motto plastered on the top of the website "Badassity". So, instead of bowing to the revenue generator of those referrals, he just stopped working with them.

Whether or not you believe that he uses the blogging money is on you... but doesn't Nords have a blog and a book that he says goes to charity? How is this any different?

It does sound like you are a rabid defender.... heck, I even put in my post that if all of his blogging money is going to charity then I would call him retired... (maybe go back and read what I posted)....

Just because you get rid of one advertiser does not cut it IMO.... if you have ads that you get paid..... you have ads.... it really does not matter who is paying you....

So, to boil it down... if he is using blogging money to live, then that is his job... if all his blogging money is going to charity, then it is his hobby... like I have said a number of times, I do not know what he is doing... heck, I don't CARE one way or the other....



Heck, to make you feel better, let's say his is retired and leave it at that...
__________________
Texas Proud is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 02:11 PM   #40
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,327
Quote:
Originally Posted by bo_knows View Post
His entire family spent $680 on gas for the entire year last year.
Driving from Denver to Toronto round trip @ 30 mpg would cost about $400 in gas alone according to MapQuest, without any other side or day trips.

So they ride their bikes to and from the grocery store in winter in Colorado to save on gas? Really? Even the buffalo look pretty cold in this pic

http://www.timescall.com/news/longmo...mont-area-snow
__________________

__________________
daylatedollarshort is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:19 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.