Minimum wage. Raise it, lower it...?

Thanks FUEGO, I should clarify:

Yes, I am talking about overall benefit to the low-wage earners. You can call me a bleeding heart liberal if you want ;)

You won't see any name-calling from me. I think there is a place in our society for helping out some folks to a limited extent. But I also consider myself a conservative fiscally. I just wish we would waste our money on the right things.
 
The moderators appreciate your courtesy, Fuego.

Well, I certainly appreciate the moderators appreciation as well. Now if I could just get some appreciation in certain asset classes in my portfolio...
 
Thanks FUEGO, I should clarify:

Yes, I am talking about overall benefit to the low-wage earners. You can call me a bleeding heart liberal if you want ;)

-ERD50

You won't see any name-calling from me.

The moderators appreciate your courtesy, Fuego.

whoooops, I hope my little lame attempt at humor wasn't misunderstood there. Or maybe I am misunderstanding your reply? In either case, I'm sorry, I don't want to side track this thread with this.

I was poking some fun at myself there. I think a lot of people see me as the anti-liberal, so it was meant to be a joke.

Even at that, I don't think of some of these labels as 'name calling'. A while back, someone got on my case for referring to some other posters as liberals or their liberal views. It wasn't meant as 'name calling' just a shorthand description of their viewpoint. IIRC, Martha was one that said something to the effect 'I'm proud to be known as a liberal'. And I'm glad we live in a country where we can express, discuss and even argue our differing viewpoints.

Anyhow, I agree with the rest of your comments.

-ERD50
 
whoooops, I hope my little lame attempt at humor wasn't misunderstood there. Or maybe I am misunderstanding your reply? In either case, I'm sorry, I don't want to side track this thread with this.

I was poking some fun at myself there. I think a lot of people see me as the anti-liberal, so it was meant to be a joke.

I figured it was sarcastic on your part! I hadn't stereotyped you as an "anti-liberal" though - not sure if you just aren't trying hard enough or if I'm just not paying attention...

Nothing bleeding heart in what you wrote here or what I have written as far as I'm concerned.
 
I found this site but am too tired to read any of it:
Supporting minimum wages: research, reports, sites
There are materials supporting both sides.

Thanks ladelfina, I will try to wade through some of those later. I'll keep an open mind, but the fact that the url of that site is 'raiseminwage.org' isn't exactly filling me with confidence regarding lack of bias on their choice of articles. ;)

OK, poked around that site a bit - this report seems typical of what I find in these arguments:

Opposing the minimum wage: articles and posts

http://www.fiscalpolicy.org/FPISmallBusinessMinWage.pdf

This analysis does not prove that increasing the minimum wage will boost employment growth over what it otherwise would have been. But it is clear that the prediction that an increase in the minimum wage will result in adverse employment outcomes has not been validated.

Hmmm, pretty hard to tell if they were able to adjust for all the variables that would impact a study like this. But they seem to say that since you can't prove we are wrong, it is good enough. And let's just ignore that pesky supply/demand thing economists talk about - we want to help people! Again, I say that burden of proof lies on the one suggesting the action.

In fact, this analysis suggests that small employers may benefit from a higher minimum wage because of positive effects on worker retention and productivity and savings on recruitment and training costs.

Hmmm, so the govt knows better than the average small business owners? Heck, the govt is so smart that even a one-size-fits-all strategy on wages is better than what these small business owners might come up with.

They are saying that an employer really does not know how much to pay employees in order to get the most out of them, considering retention, training, motivation, etc. I'd like to give the entrepreneur a bit more credit than that - and if they don't have it, it is their problem and their business will suffer. But, let's take it to it's logical conclusion - why stop with wages? The govt should tell this owner what flavors of ice cream to offer, what size tables to have, the color of the table cloth, what the business hours should be, and how they should price their products... after all, the business owner is too stupid to figure this out w/o help from the govt.

I'll refer back to samclem's comment on why not make min wage $100? Yep, I know - you will say 'don't be silly' - but what is the diff? If a min wage is going to help reduce the number of poor people, why wouldn't $100/hour help make everyone rich? Why not? - because it doesn't work.

Now, if someone can make a case that the low wage worker is at a disadvantage in bargaining power versus low wage employers - then I suggest we figure out how to equalize that, rather than band-aid it with a wage #. Otherwise, the problem will just crop up in some other form.

Maybe there are better articles with more compelling arguments in there, but based on the split that wiki refers to, I doubt it.

-ERD50
 
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