Misleading/False SS benefit information?

[street]

Quote:

Originally Posted by skipro33 The problem with a chart like this is that it assumes the funds received are spent and are not offsetting other investments that otherwise would have been spent. Taking SS at 62 preserves personal savings/IRA/retirement funds that continue to grow for example. Or maybe taking SS at 62 is invested in an index fund until FRA or max age when SS could have been drawn on later. The fact is; deciding on when to take SS is only part of the formula of ascertaining one's lifetime personal wealth.

Exactly! One size doesn't fit all.

[pb4uski]

Quote:

Originally Posted by skipro33 The problem with a chart like this is that it assumes the funds received are spent and are not offsetting other investments that otherwise would have been spent. Taking SS at 62 preserves personal savings/IRA/retirement funds that continue to grow for example. Or maybe taking SS at 62 is invested in an index fund until FRA or max age when SS could have been drawn on later. The fact is; deciding on when to take SS is only part of the formula of ascertaining one's lifetime personal wealth.

Actually, you couldn't be more wrong... the chart doesn't assume anything with respect to how the SS received is used... to the chart, it doesn't matter whether it is spent or saved... you're reading something into it that isn't there.

All the chart does is to show the cumulative amount received, excluding COLA adjustments, if you start SS at 62 or 66 or 70 and where the aggregate amounts received crossover (aka breakeven).

The chart doesn't advocate for one alternative vs the other... it just lays out the facts.

The OP thought that it was irresponsible for certain articles to claim that "if you wait until age 70 to take SS you will maximize your lifetime benefits, assuming you live the average life expectancy" and the chart, along with information from the SoA on average life expectancy just says that it is not outlandish to say that if you wait until age 70 to take SS you will maximize your lifetime benefits, assuming you live the average life expectancy.

Now I agree that there are other factors to consider in deciding an SS claiming strategy, particularly the time value/opportunity cost of money, but that isn't relevant to the question at hand so your objections are off-point.

[skipro33]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pb4uski Actually, you couldn't be more wrong... the chart doesn't assume anything with respect to how the SS received is used... to the chart, it doesn't matter whether it is spent or saved... you're reading something into it that isn't there. All the chart does is to show the cumulative amount received, excluding COLA adjustments, if you start SS at 62 or 66 or 70 and where the aggregate amounts received crossover (aka breakeven). The chart doesn't advocate for one alternative vs the other... it just lays out the facts. The OP thought that it was irresponsible for certain articles to claim that "if you wait until age 70 to take SS you will maximize your lifetime benefits, assuming you live the average life expectancy" and the chart, along with information from the SoA on average life expectancy just says that it is not outlandish to say that if you wait until age 70 to take SS you will maximize your lifetime benefits, assuming you live the average life expectancy. Now I agree that there are other factors to consider in deciding an SS claiming strategy, particularly the time value/opportunity cost of money, but that isn't relevant to the question at hand so your objections are off-point.

Then at the very least, the chart is useless. The 'benefit' is a tangible asset. SS administration recognizes this by assigning value to the actuarial table it's based on as well as predictions of a stable and flat inflation rate for calculating COLA. The recipients of the benefit are not being advised to do the same. Rather, they are being encouraged to ignore the same aspects that SSA engages in when making a value determination on when to take SS.

[Scuba]

Quote:

Originally Posted by W2R ROFL!!! That's me, "Dangerous Radical W2R". (I love the comments on this forum! Thank you!) I temporarily changed my avatar to the REAL me...

[emoji23] Love the new avatar!

[pb4uski]

Quote:

Originally Posted by skipro33 ....The 'benefit' is a tangible asset. ...

Wrong again... you're on a roll. Perhaps you should stick to skiing.

Quote:

A tangible asset is an asset that has a physical form. Tangible assets include both fixed assets, such as machinery, buildings and land, and current assets, such as inventory. ...

[rcbrad]

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeea This might help: https://obliviousinvestor.com/social...al-neutrality/

Thanks Yes these are important things to consider. I realize that there is no one size fits all. My situation is fairly simple-thankfully.

[Scuba]

I agree with the point that others have made about the decision of when to take SS being very individual and also unique to the situation. DH and I have decided to wait and see. Neither of us is eligible yet, and whether we take it at 62, FRA, 70 or some other option will depend on our health (so far both very healthy with no chronic conditions), performance of other investments, tax situation, and need for the funds (or not) at the time. For example, if the market is in a 2008 situation when we hit 62, it may be best for us to start taking SS and avoid withdrawing that amount from other assets. If the market is stable or doing well and we want to minimize taxes, perhaps we will defer. Time will tell. Lots to consider.

[Souschef]

There were few discussions with these charts as to the time value of money. At 4%, $1000 at age 66 is equal to $857 at age 70

[street]

The chart isn't exactly telling the whole story. My break even is 82 year of age some interesting info in this article also.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/13/thos...isleading.html

[skipro33]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pb4uski Wrong again... you're on a roll. Perhaps you should stick to skiing. A tangible asset is an asset that has a physical form. Tangible assets include both fixed assets, such as machinery, buildings and land, and current assets, such as inventory. ...

I do not understand why you are taking this to a personal insult level but I'm not going to rise to your bait. Your definition of tangible is incomplete. Tangible, as I used it in the sentence,

tangible meaning: 1. real and not imaginary

From investopedia
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/ans...ble-assets.asp

Quote:

There are two types of tangible assets: Current assets include items such as cash, inventory, and marketable securities. Fixed assets. They are recorded on the balance sheet as Property, Plant, and Equipment (PP&E), and include assets such as trucks, machinery, office furniture, buildings, etc.Apr 23, 2018

Your definition is shortened by omission of words with sacrifice of sense.

The reciprocal of tangible asset is an intangible asset. Intangible assets are non-physical. Examples of intangible assets are intellectual property such as patents, trademarks, patents, goodwill, copyrights, trade secrets, licensing agreements, etc. I'll have to state that SS income is physical. Foldable and fits-in-my-wallet physical anyways.

If you want to challenge my definition of reciprocal, here is mine;
Definition of reciprocal. : inversely related : opposite.


****EDIT****
I wanted to add;
This examination of SS reminds me of winning the lottery; annuity vs lump sum.
While the lottery board doesn't care which way you take it, since it's all the same cost to them, obviously the winner feels different and almost always takes the smaller amount of the lump sum. So it is with SS. Taking a smaller amount now can certainly be seen as an advantage to many who are offered the option.

[pb4uski]

Per Merriam-Webster:

[Sunset]

Since lifespans are longer than when SS was created, living to current average lifespan means living longer than SS planners thought, so waiting until 70 will result in a larger payout of SS upon current average lifespan death.

If you only live to the SS average lifespan when the different rates of payout were created, then it does not matter.

[donheff]

Good grief. Some of you are almost religious on this topic. I find the question interesting even though I don't get SS but ease up on the scorched earth approach. It's not imperative that we all convert everyone else to our particular take on the question. If one group of SS timing partisans actually won that debate we would have no more threads on the topic and that would be a real loss.

[travelover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by donheff Good grief. Some of you are almost religious on this topic. I find the question interesting even though I don't get SS but ease up on the scorched earth approach. It's not imperative that we all convert everyone else to our particular take on the question. If one group of SS timing partisans actually won that debate we would have no more threads on the topic and that would be a real loss.

Oh sure, next you'll be denying that everyone should pay off their mortgage ASAP.

[donheff]

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Originally Posted by travelover Oh sure, next you'll be denying that everyone should pay off their mortgage ASAP.

I paid both of mine off so you know where I stand.

[marko]

Quote:

Originally Posted by travelover Oh sure, next you'll be denying that everyone should pay off their mortgage ASAP.

The thing I (begrudgingly) like about re-hashing subjects like these is that you never know if some newbie will come in with a different angle on it.

SS is probably a poor example but we have gone over many things here many times and every once in a while someone comes in with a new perspective.

[REWahoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by marko SS is probably a poor example but we have gone over many things here many times and every once in a while someone comes in with a new perspective.

I think that's relatively rare.

What is far more common is a newcomer comes in with a misunderstanding and these recurring discussions serve to educate and inform.

[Which Roger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by REWahoo I think that's relatively rare. What is far more common is a newcomer comes in with a misunderstanding and these recurring discussions serve to educate and inform.

And what's even more common than that is that posters make incorrect assumptions about other poster's circumstances, not realizing or acknowledging that everyone's situation is different, then off we go rehashing the same old debates.

[btdt22]

I'm one of the dummies who paid off their mortgage early and waited until 70 to take SS, but than again I am quite happy as a dummy and enjoying doing whatever I want to, when I want to.

To each their own

[GravitySucks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by travelover Oh sure, next you'll be denying that everyone should pay off their mortgage ASAP.

And people with hobby income can really be called retired.