Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-23-2014, 10:10 AM   #21
Full time employment: Posting here.
Silver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Orlando, Fl
Posts: 580
My father lived with my husband (now former husband) and I for a little over five years before he died. I believe that this is at least partially responsible for that marriage ending. It certainly made our relationship much more tense and distant than before he moved in.

My father had dementia and multiple minor strokes. Because of the dementia he couldn't remember how to use the walker safely so I bought him an electric wheelchair because he was falling so much. H2ODude....I was thinking that perhaps your MIL would benefit from an electric WC as well.....just a thought. They are actually quite handy inside a home.

Vicente...it really is all up to you and your family how you want to deal with this. If you think you can successfully establish boundaries for her behavior in your home, that would be a start. But your own behavior will determine how successful the boundaries will be.
__________________

__________________
You're only crazy if you're poor. If you have money, you're eccentric.
Silver is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 03-23-2014, 10:16 AM   #22
Dryer sheet aficionado
Coffee Mavin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 25
It sounds like your mom is on a 3 month rotation through each of your homes - why is that? It does not sound like she needs care. Is she just broke?

Waiting until the end of her stay to outline the rules will not work. You need to sit down with her now and say that you realize that not outlining the house rules at the beginning was a mistake. Advise her that with extended stays, she is not a guest but a member of your household & give her the list of what that means, including being considerate of other household members. I would also tell her that these are your home rules to enable the relationship to work and to be able to welcome her back for future extended stays.

If you can't have that conversation, then instead of telling her the rules right before she leaves I would suggest you tell her that as an abusive guest she is not welcome back for more than a week at a time. You are going to make her just as mad either way, so I'd go for the final statement that makes your life livable.
__________________

__________________
Coffee Mavin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2014, 11:14 AM   #23
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 855
For many reasons, and for a long while, it "seemed" that the only choice was for our mother to live with my sister and her husband. It got to where my sister started working longer hours because she dreaded going home to her own house...!

Now our mom is in a nice assisted living facility three miles from my sister's house and everyone is much happier, including mom. She has people catering to her, she likes the food and the activities, she can still go to the senior center on weekdays to see her friends (and a couple of her friends are in the same living center.)

That's not to say there are no challenges. Time is still devoted to visiting, taking her to church, to the doctor. But that's not the challenging part. Our mom tries to lay on the guilt about anything that does not go her way and play the "I'm-still-the-mother-and-you-should-obey-me" card on her adult children who are in their fifties. But that part was there before.

Most significant: the huge worry and stress cloud over all the siblings, especially my sister and her spouse, started lifting the day mom was admitted as a resident at the living center.

Kindest regards.
__________________
spncity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2014, 11:31 AM   #24
Moderator
Walt34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern WV Panhandle
Posts: 16,579
I realize that cultural conditions are different in Spain but admittedly am clueless about what those differences are.

That said, like FIREd, I'd have a conversation with her. It would probably not end well. The conversation would go along the lines of:

1. This is OUR home. Not yours, and you will not dictate our living conditions. Yes, you are my mother and as such are deserving of some measure of respect. But the other side of that coin is for you to recognize that we are mature adults and we expect and deserve the same measure of respect and courtesy. We are not children and will not tolerate being treated as such.

2. The inside of the house is a no smoking zone. End of discussion. See item 1.

3. Again referring to item 1, the TV in the living room will not be on 12 hours a day. You have a TV in your room. Use that one.

If you feel that these are undue restrictions then by all means make other living arrangements.

vicente, the alternative is to continue living as you are now. A change is necessary.
__________________
I heard the call to do nothing. So I answered it.
Walt34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2014, 12:54 PM   #25
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
vicente solano's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,116
Great advice from all of you. Thank you all. But sadly I am afraid that the subtle, polite and reasonable approach isn't going to do the trick. A few facts:
1. She doesn't have living friends here. What's worse she isn't interested in making new ones. She has always been rather antisocial, trait that now is very predominant.
2. She was very much spoiled by my father almost never confronted her.
3. She had few hobbies and now she has none. Sure, she is 86. She is very lucid but nothing really interests her.
4. She says that taking her out tires and hurts her. She wants to be left alone.
5. She doesn't want to spend time in her room because she gets bored. She says that she wants to be where the domestic action is, not to be left out.
6. As I've mentioned she avoids any discussion of the issues. Either ignores subtleties or gets easily offended.
7. Regarding her smoking, she says that at her age she couldn't care less about her health, and either doesn't believe in the harm inflicted on people around her or take it as an excuse to push her out or isolate her. For her smoking freely is the only thing that she likes that is left to her.
8. She says that her back pains are less frequent or intense if she moves around. She sleeps very little. Staying in bed does nothing to alleviate her disconfort.
9. She has no conversation skills. She states her opinions.
I could go on .....
Our hopes lie in the summer break: she has her own summer cottages where she has always stayed for the season where some of my siblings spend time there. Come Fall some one else has to take up the problem.... And then and only then Ill be able to plead the same excuses that are being used by my siblings if she wants to return home!
__________________
I get by with a little help from my friends....ta ta ta ta ta...
vicente solano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2014, 01:02 PM   #26
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
travelover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,906
Take your mom to visit one of your siblings. Leave while she is in the bathroom.
__________________
Yes, I have achieved work / life balance.
travelover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2014, 01:09 PM   #27
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 13,291
About 5 years ago we were looking at putting my mom in a home... but, I found a one bedroom condo in a high rise... she loves it...

Now we have some care coming in 3 days a week... we will go to 5 when necessary (which might be soon)... mom still says she wants to live where she is at as long as she can... I am lucky enough to have sisters that come and take mom out for activities and we take her out one night a week and for some special occasions...


My DW has mentioned about having her in our house, and I say no... as so many people have said, there is too much drama that likely will occur... I also do not want to have DW bring her mom in when the time comes....
__________________
Texas Proud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2014, 01:13 PM   #28
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
vicente solano's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,116
My wife, who is suffering the problem that other in-laws have managed to dodge, asks what would be the best solution for everybody:
1. Have Mom in a place of her own where 4 of us live and getting All her children on rotation to live with her.
2. Have her spend Winter and Fall at her flat in Madrid and the rest of the year here.
I discard moving her around to her 9 children's places as it would really mean treating her worse than a suitcase.

Let's have your opinion, please.
__________________
I get by with a little help from my friends....ta ta ta ta ta...
vicente solano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2014, 01:19 PM   #29
Moderator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Rocky Inlets
Posts: 24,492
Your mother would probably want to live where she can have friends her own age, some family nearby, not feel that she is a burden on anyone, and have a little dignity, in addition to a bit of privacy.
__________________
MichaelB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2014, 01:22 PM   #30
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 710
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt34 View Post
I realize that cultural conditions are different in Spain but admittedly am clueless about what those differences are.

That said, like FIREd, I'd have a conversation with her. It would probably not end well. The conversation would go along the lines of:

1. This is OUR home. Not yours, and you will not dictate our living conditions. Yes, you are my mother and as such are deserving of some measure of respect. But the other side of that coin is for you to recognize that we are mature adults and we expect and deserve the same measure of respect and courtesy. We are not children and will not tolerate being treated as such.

2. The inside of the house is a no smoking zone. End of discussion. See item 1.

3. Again referring to item 1, the TV in the living room will not be on 12 hours a day. You have a TV in your room. Use that one.

If you feel that these are undue restrictions then by all means make other living arrangements.

vicente, the alternative is to continue living as you are now. A change is necessary.
This is most certainly the American direct way to handle this and I have to say I agree with this approach. However, this would certainly not go down well in Spain and in most cultures around the world. If Vincent handles it like that, he is likely to be cut off from his mother and the siblings will probably take her side. Mothers are highly revered in most societies and you work around them not the other way around. Speaking to his mother like this is tantamount to disowning her. He has to figure how to address the situation while saving face. He might have to fake illness or something so his siblings can take her in. I could be wrong but that has been my impression.
__________________
Letj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2014, 01:30 PM   #31
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,020
I am confused. She has a flat in Madrid and summer cottages elsewhere. It is not clear to me why she cannot live in one of her own homes with intermittent visits from family and appropriate support from home care workers.
__________________
Meadbh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2014, 02:08 PM   #32
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
vicente solano's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meadbh View Post
I am confused. She has a flat in Madrid and summer cottages elsewhere. It is not clear to me why she cannot live in one of her own homes with intermittent visits from family and appropriate support from home care workers.
Quite simply-because she doesn't want anyone more than 4/6hours a week for the hard house chores. She feels that quasi live-in caretakers interferes with her privacy, even though she admits to not being able to really live completely on her own. As I've said, she mentioned that she felt lonely....and was propelled here by my siblings in Madrid. Certainly, when we heard about her loneliness, all 4 of us here offered our homes. We should have known better....
__________________
I get by with a little help from my friends....ta ta ta ta ta...
vicente solano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2014, 02:13 PM   #33
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,020
The word "want" is a recurring theme. She "wants" many things, but fails to see that her family members also have wants and needs.

I think you need to be kind but firm. Establish reasonable house rules. Calmly and consistently enforce them. Do not allow your mother to manipulate you and DW and make your lives a misery. When your mother moves to her summer cottage, invite your siblings to a family meeting. Establish an equitable plan that is fair to all. Implement it.
__________________
Meadbh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2014, 02:37 PM   #34
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,387
My Mother's mother lived with our four child family from when I was little until after I had left for college when she died. When her sister (my Mom's Aunt) became a widow she moved in too.

I'm sure my Dad was less than thrilled by any of this, but otoh, these two older women were dynamos of cooking and kitchen clean-up and child care. Since my Mother was essentially hopeless in domestic life, even before she returned to work about the time I went to college, this combined with a weekly house cleaner allowed her to plot her escape from tasks that she was unable or unwilling to do. I think all us children were basically glad- we had much better food, on time, and my sister at least got the mothering she needed and hadn't had much of from my mom.

A difference from this and Vicente's situation was that the woman of the house was these two older women's daughter and niece. Also, ours was still a young family, and there was plenty that our guests could do to help out, and also 4 grandchildren to give some interest to their lives. I never got very close to G'ma, but my Aunt was something else. She had been a bar owner/operator, and once defended herself in a robbery by stabbing the miscreant fatally. This was plenty to earn my complete respect.

I later heard that here was some talk about the necessity of her act, but the prosecutor decided whether it was strictly necessary in this instanced or not, sooner or later it would have been, as this punk obviously needed killing.

Ah, the good old days!

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2014, 02:50 PM   #35
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,020
Ha, your great aunt sounds like a cool lady! The difference between this and Vicente's situation is that she and your grandmother were making an economic contribution to the running of the household. Vicente's mom appears to behave as a difficult and disgruntled guest.
__________________
Meadbh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2014, 04:23 PM   #36
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 366
I want it this or that way...
Your mother at 85 most likely wants what is familiar, understandable. She can't imagine how great it would be to live amongst people her own age and mentally engage at a social level with peers. All of us here have put off doing the unknown whether changing jobs, retiring, or whatever and later thought to ourselves how much better this is why did I ever hesitate. There is a somewhat of a role reversal at work too with the parent/child concept at work, and as a parent sometimes you make a child do something you know is better for them.

Time for a month long trip? A sibling can host Mom and upon your return they might be open to discussing alternatives choices for Mom's living requirements besides staying with them.
__________________
springnr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2014, 04:24 PM   #37
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
redduck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: yonder
Posts: 2,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meadbh View Post
Careful now.....we don't want Vicente and DW to be accused of elder abuse!
Let's not be so hasty here.

Child abuse: the child is taken out of the house and placed in a foster home.

Elder abuse: the elder is taken out of the house and placed in a foster home.

Problem solved.
__________________
redduck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2014, 04:26 PM   #38
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
braumeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Northern Kentucky
Posts: 8,630
Quote:
Originally Posted by springnr View Post
Your mother at 85 most likely wants what is familiar, understandable. She can't imagine how great it would be to live amongst people her own age and mentally engage at a social level with peers.
This was exactly the case with my mother. Once she found herself (at my insistence) in an environment where there were others of a similar age, she loved it. And it continued to be good for her. Once she began the inevitable physical decline, there were plenty of people who cared about her and checked up on her every day.
__________________
braumeister is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2014, 04:56 PM   #39
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,020
Vicente, can you describe the Spanish personal care homes and how they are regarded? Is there strong social pressure to have elderly people live with relatives? Are personal care homes a last resort? I realize that the solution must be culturally appropriate.
__________________
Meadbh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2014, 04:58 PM   #40
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
robnplunder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 2,124
I hate to be the only one saying this. But I don't think things will work out. She may have to move out to keep peace in your home. My mom is much like OP's mom and it drives everyone crazy to be near her. When she was younger, she used to be a reasonable (even wise) person. But with aging came stubbornness, and aggression. My sis ended up recommending her to see psychologist. My younger brother constantly fought with her before he passed away. Nothing short of miracle is going to fix her ways. She lives by herself and I dare not ask her to live with us (it will challenge our relationship, and my marriage). And that's good for everyone, IMO.
__________________

__________________
Pura Vida
robnplunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
standard on living or living with basic in US Enuff2Eat FIRE and Money 14 12-30-2005 11:35 AM
Should Mom be able to make it? modhatter Life after FIRE 32 08-25-2005 07:43 PM
Should Mom be able to make it? modhatter Life after FIRE 6 08-18-2005 12:44 PM
Understanding my mom's Tiaa-Cref account? soupcxan FIRE and Money 3 04-12-2005 01:18 AM
Mom being sued after car wreck? BigMoneyJim Other topics 5 03-21-2003 07:14 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:07 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.