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More Free Exchange?
Old 11-23-2004, 07:32 AM   #1
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More Free Exchange?

On the "Looking For Advice" post, the OP got a response from "William." William then got blasted. How come? The other boards in this forum are more on-subject but isn't this one intended to be less so?

I like looking at some of this stuff and it's like the TV, if you don't like what you're seeing, turn the channel.

I posted about RE on another board and someone went off on me...I guess it just comes w/the territory.

Maybe someone who is less than honest or fabricating details deserves what they get...?

I don't think this forum will do any one any good if it's just a bunch of retired guys shooting the breeze.

This board should be about how to reach ER with guidance from those who have done it. I did it the old fashioned way--first I went broke at 35 due mostly to bad management of a good UMC income--then I got a clue and started saving by controlling my living expenses.

A good job and some RE profits helped but the basis of my ER will be my Federal pension.

I know, that is not much of a recipe but there it is. How can those comments help someone on the road to ER? IMHO, RE would have been the ticket out sooner if I had only realized it sooner. That is my message and mix it with the basics of sound personal financial magement:

Spend less than you earn;
Pay Yourself First;
Keep a Budget;
Have a Spending Plan;
Max out your tax-deferred Accounts;
Pay Off your Mortgage;
Live Debt-free (it makes ER cheaper);
Think long-term, have a vision.

I do not think we should be in the business of squashing discussion on this board or flaming posts you find offensive, better to ignore them as some of these posts seem to get posted just to get the fur flying. R/
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Re: More Free Exchange?
Old 11-23-2004, 10:47 AM   #2
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Re: More Free Exchange?

William was promoting an offshore MLM claiming 42% monthly ROI. He had made several posts, been warned about the obvious sales bias and highly suspect investment scheme from several posters and then persisted by cutting and pasting promotional materials and repeating himself in other threads. Most of this is played out in this thread. Note that in that thread I discovered that William's email address was being used on numerous other financial message boards pushing the MLM scheme. He was quite demonstratably a spammer.

This board is gaining more and more attention, and as it does we get occasional attempts at promoting what most here consider poor or even fraudulent investment schemes.

Then again, sometimes people are just enthusiastic about something and omit some details and someone else points them out.

Up until just now I wasn't sure if you were enthusiastic or trying something. Now I see what you're doing: You're trying to generate traffic to your page to increase your chances of selling Amazon.com books. Yeah, Tripod has the top and bottom banner ads, but the Amazon.com link is a partner link, and you make money on each book sold through that link.

That by itself is not necessarily bad, but posting that link in 4 places here so far and your sales language are indicative of spamming.

You have an email address on your linked page. That email address is on another page with Amazon partner links.

You're credibility is shrinking rapidly. Continue to use this board as a hit generator for your Amazon links and you'll probably get flamed some more.

On the other hand, if you want to join the community without gratuitous spamming you sound like you may have some things to offer. You posted some reviews at Amazon. At this point the jury is out on whether you're just another ER-interested guy with an Amazon partner link or a spammer building rapport to sneak in more page hits and partner sales.

By the way, even respected posters get jumped on a fair bit. Every time John Galt says you can retire on $200K in bonds one of us has to point out his working wife and tax-offsetting capital losses.
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Re: More Free Exchange?
Old 11-23-2004, 01:29 PM   #3
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Re: More Free Exchange?

The name of this board is "...no work no brains." I think that says it all. Posts to this site are not to be taken all that seriously and BUYER BEWARE.

I think you're trolling on the wrong board. The point of my OP is just that--do you serious types want exclusive rights to all the boards? Lighten up!

I put disclaimers on my OP and posts for the convenience of others. Any traffic they might generate won't amount to a hill of beans.

Get a life and go to the other boards and leave this one to those who come to it knowing it is somewhat loose. Read the name of the board and get over it.

William might be scamming but so what, you'd have to be a dope to fall for his line. Have more respect for the intellect of the readers.

These boards are public property to some extent and how do you come to make the rules? The board is at the bottom of the list for a good reason, I think.

Don't over-estimate the pool of talent here: there's a few regulars and most people just drop by for amusement. And all the serious posts include disclaimers to the effect of don't try this at home.

What I do or don't have to contribute to the broader conversation is not for you to say; each reader does that individually for his or herself.



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Re: More Free Exchange?
Old 11-23-2004, 04:34 PM   #4
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Re: More Free Exchange?

Consejo, thanks for moving your posts to the appropriate category. If you read the category definition, it pretty much nails your content.

Quote:
Make money fast with no work and no brains

Frankly, the vast majority of folks who have reached or are contemplating early retirement aren't all that interested in "get rich quick" schemes. If you must post such stuff, though, put it here - not in the other discussion areas.
Keep those "free exchanges" coming.
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Re: More Free Exchange?
Old 11-23-2004, 04:47 PM   #5
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Re: More Free Exchange?

REWanabe, exactly, that's why I moved over here. Those of us who want to can partake, those who don't can go to the more "serious" boards.

I thought in doing so I would get some relief from the flame-for-fun crowd, but they seem to know no bounds.

If you are a REWanabe, do you have your niche picked out yet? RE is a very broad investment choice. You can flip, do fixers, or buy and hold to name a few. Also, there is the vehicle, itself, such as SFRs, multi-family, commercial and raw land.

All those are pretty complicated but if you already own a home, and you know the residential neighborhoods where you live, you already have some of the expertise needed to invest in SFRs.

I know them and duplexes; they are all I have ever owned. I used a buy and hold formula. I liked it because it wasn't a lot of work so I could do it and still keep my full time job. R/

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Re: More Free Exchange?
Old 11-23-2004, 05:02 PM   #6
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Re: More Free Exchange?

Consejo, as you so aptly stated:
Quote:
Posts to this site are not to be taken all that seriously
My "free exchange" post was an exercise in sarcasm. Did you get beat up a lot when you were a kid?

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Re: More Free Exchange?
Old 11-23-2004, 05:14 PM   #7
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Re: More Free Exchange?

Consejo, don't take this the wrong way, but you tend to come off a bit "Carleton Sheets"-ish, if you know what I mean. I suspect that you are just enthusiastic, but you have definately succeeded in raising some hackles.

FWIW, I think that you don't see that many posters here interested in directly held RE because it is too much like work. It seems to me that well chosen RE investments offer one the opportunity to get good returns on invested capital (with leverage) and goose returns with some sweat equity. But you usually have to be willing to roll up your sleeves and get to workk. When you are talking to an audience of sophisticated investors who are trying to set up a big enough portfolio so that they can stop working, this is a hard sell.

I also think that you are running headlong into the sentiment that many RE markets are wildly overpriced. At the current valuations of many markets, the only people who would invest are 1) fools who don't understand what is going on, 2) speculators, or 3) those in love with RE as an asset class. I suspect that you fall into category 3 and most of the rest of us fall into none of these categories.

Having said that, I think that thoughtful posts that share knowledge about RE would be welcomed. I'm really more interested in equities, derivatives, and bonds myself, but I would invest in RE if I saw an attractive opportunity. John Galt frequently mentions that he sees opportunities all the time; I'd be interested in how to spot those opportunities, for example.
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Re: More Free Exchange?
Old 11-23-2004, 05:18 PM   #8
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Re: More Free Exchange?

REW, I got it, but it was exactly correct, neverthe less. (Even a blind pig finds an acorn now and then!)

This board is for those considering (however outlandish or self-serving) something other than the drone of "stock-market 10% average return."

I don't know where that kid remark came from, get a life and get on another board if the wild side ain't your ride.

It's flamers that ruin a community. R/
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Re: More Free Exchange?
Old 11-23-2004, 05:30 PM   #9
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Re: More Free Exchange?

Brewer, not this board! The title of this board implies wacky not serious. You have a dozen of those serious boards open to you on this forum, why rain on our parade on this one little corner of the universe.

To say that RE markets are "widly overpriced," is a common misconception. There are still communities all over America where you can invest in RE. What you say is true only about a small but well-publicized piece of the whole.

And, again, except for my home, I hold no RE. Of course, my house appreciated almost 50% in the last twelve months (an ROI of >200%). I know you stock market guys don't want to hear it but there it is.

It doesn't take any sophistication to set up a portfolio to live on. Here is the formula: Work for 40 years, get a good education so you earn in the upper middle class, and save 20% of gross in your tax free accounts.

So, you guys can quit posting now because there it is!

How much fun is that? If my post was in the wrong place before then all these diatribes in response are in the wrong place now. R/
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Re: More Free Exchange?
Old 11-23-2004, 05:50 PM   #10
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Re: More Free Exchange?

I'll give you credit for being brutally honest about your approach to ER per your description of the area you're posting in:

Quote:
The title of this board implies wacky not serious.
Few of us who have or are stiving to retire "early" believe in get rich quick schemes and have little patience for snake oil salesmen and their ilk. But I am impressed at your willingness to admit to your "wackiness" and truly find such forthright admission refreshing. (No sarcasm intended, acorn found).

REW
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Re: More Free Exchange?
Old 11-24-2004, 07:35 AM   #11
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Re: More Free Exchange?

Quote:
Brewer, not this board! *The title of this board implies wacky not serious. *You have a dozen of those serious boards open to you on this forum, why rain on our parade on this one little corner of the universe.

To say that RE markets are "widly overpriced," is a common misconception. *There are still communities all over America where you can invest in RE. *What you say is true only about a small but well-publicized piece of the whole.

And, again, except for my home, I hold no RE. *Of course, my house appreciated almost 50% in the last twelve months (an ROI of >200%). *I know you stock market guys don't want to hear it but there it is.

It doesn't take any sophistication to set up a portfolio to live on. *Here is the formula: Work for 40 years, get a good education so you earn in the upper middle class, and save 20% of gross in your tax free accounts.

So, you guys can quit posting now because there it is!

How much fun is that? *If my post was in the wrong place before then all these diatribes in response are in the wrong place now. *R/
Ah, I see. In addition to being abrasive and bull-headed, you also don't read very carefully. Note that I said that "many" real estate markets appear to be wildly overpriced. Where I live, the only way you could get a property to be cash flow positive would be to put down 50% or more of the purchase price. I know there are lots of coastal and big ciy markets very similar to mine. Of course there will always be some markets that are more modestly priced, but it is pretty hard to own rental RE in Ohio if you live in NJ or CA.

I'm also not sue why you have such a huge chip on your shoulder about RE versus other asset classes. I'm glad that you have done well owning your own home (like many of us), but I think that bragging is probably offensive to others besides me. I've no doubt that many of us could make similar boasts about some investment in our portfolios, but clearly most choose not to do so. Give the promotion a rest.

Lastly, I think you discount the work that goes into a properly planned path to FIRE. Save 20% of gross for 40 years, eh? Done the math on that one? I doubt it.

I've no lack of respect for sharp operators in RE investing, but I dearly wish that all of the sleazy promoters would pick something else to flog (gold, maybe?).
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Re: More Free Exchange?
Old 12-01-2004, 04:03 AM   #12
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Re: More Free Exchange?

Quote:

I don't think this forum will do any one any good if it's just a bunch of retired guys shooting the breeze.
Theres a difference shooting the breeze and shooting the sh*t. :
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Re: More Free Exchange?
Old 12-01-2004, 05:32 AM   #13
 
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Re: More Free Exchange?

Well now, I must take exception to this theory. Even if you
accept that this forum (or any forum) on the ER topic
was "just a bunch of retired guys shooting the breeze",
it might still be entertaining and people could still pick up nuggets of useful info. Personally, I prefer it to be a bit more
esoteric, but can tolerate some nonsense and BS.
Hell, I am probably one of the main contributors
All this SWR debating can get a little dry after a while.

John Galt
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