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Old 02-04-2009, 03:15 PM   #21
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I'd love to see a jet engine design, that actually flies, with a meat grinder ahead of the compressor blades.

Any graphic artist to do a conceptual drawing? If you can make it work Rolls Royce would love to hear from you.
I think we should spend a few billion of that bailout package on 2-in-1 meat grinder/jet engines. Put all of those laid off engineers back to work for a while. Just imagine, it can slice, dice, grind, and cook all in one system. That may rival sliced bread as best invention of all time. Then we can keep all the patent attorneys busy protecting the IP on that one.
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Old 02-04-2009, 03:17 PM   #22
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I don't think any jury trial would be complete without video of the turkey cannon.

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If you fly air planes Sh*t happens. Sometimes you recover, sometimes you don't.
That thinking never saved us nukes from sitting around the crew's mess for four-hour witch hunts incident critiques.

In fairness, though, we'd never lost a shipmate before the incident critique started. And every critique that I sat through discovered something or decided to change something which almost always kept the problem from recurring. Or else everyone was so determined not to sit through another one of those things that hypervigilance equaled avoidance.
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Old 02-04-2009, 04:41 PM   #23
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Nords,
I set on several accident investigation boards. They are thorough and by design you usually find something that caused or added to an accident. However, hindsight helped, and in general we discovered things we never thought could happen or a pilot would be dumb enough to do. i.e. while we could not prove it, we believed the pilot ejected from a perfectly good aircraft just to see what it would be like.

My problem is, lawyers today seem to file suites counting on a settlement rather than a trial. Often it is better for the airline to settle than drag through the courts. IMO when lawyers do this, it is the same as stealing. People think, 'Hey if they will offer $5k, sure maybe I can get more, besides, it's not going to cost me anything'. I these people are morally bankrupt.
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Old 02-04-2009, 05:22 PM   #24
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If I were on the jury, I would listen to the facts, evidence, and testimony presented to me by both sides, and listen to the judge for instructions on the decisive points of law upon which I am being asked to make decisions as to who is negligent, for what, and to what extent.
What is this, science fiction ?
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Old 02-04-2009, 06:03 PM   #25
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I see we have a bunch of pilots and lawyers on this thread working :-) (or working on this thread?)
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Old 02-04-2009, 06:31 PM   #26
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I don't know the case law on that subject. And odds are the law of a comparative negligence state would apply in this case whereby the damages would be allocated based on fault. What percent is the airline or plane/engine mfrs at fault for allowing the engines to fail and what percent is the owner of the laptop at fault for failing to back up his own data?

What if he was coming back from a two week business trip with two 100 hr weeks worth of effort saved on his laptop valued at $500/hr? And he hasn't had a chance to backup due to being out of town.

Hypothetically speaking, there could be damages in excess of $5000 here. PTSD, future irrational fear of flying, flying anxiety, etc. If someone involved with keeping the plane in the air was negligent, I wouldn't want to bar someone with damages from recovering just because the pilot was highly skilled and all the passengers were safe and relatively physically unharmed.

Although the lawsuits may just be fishing expeditions at this point hoping to find something fishy during discovery.
It has already been determined that both engines were damaged by birds.
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Old 02-04-2009, 06:38 PM   #27
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I think they should be happy they're alive. Many others aren't. If they have to walk in the future (due to mental problems) so be it.
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Old 02-04-2009, 07:48 PM   #28
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I'd swear to God that you are an attorney (or retired).
I'm pretty sure there's a rule on this board about personal slurs. Please clean up your act.
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Old 02-04-2009, 08:07 PM   #29
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....It has already been determined that both engines were damaged by birds......
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I'm pretty sure there's a rule on this board about personal slurs. Please clean up your act.
Johnnie, you wouldn't be the first to have been sucked in by Fuego's finely tuned sense of sarcasm.

Fuego isn't as you characterize him, and I think you can stand to lighten up.
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Old 02-04-2009, 08:48 PM   #30
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Johnnie36 if you look at the exchange between myself and Fuego, the jests should be evident.
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Old 02-04-2009, 10:52 PM   #31
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I see we have a bunch of pilots and lawyers on this thread working :-) (or working on this thread?)
I guess I'm wondering who is representing the birds? Barring that, I wonder if there is some technical violation of either animal cruelty laws or protected species law?
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Old 02-04-2009, 11:58 PM   #32
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I guess I'm wondering who is representing the birds? Barring that, I wonder if there is some technical violation of either animal cruelty laws or protected species law?
Cue the turkey cannons...
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Old 02-05-2009, 08:21 AM   #33
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You can't honestly believe that people WEREN'T going to sue.......It's the American way of life. If I was on that plane I'd still be kissing that pilot's A$$ for saving my life!

Mike
Perhaps a play of the simulation clip at this site would be in order for the people thinking about suing.
New York plane crash: Flight 1549 almost hit George Washington Bridge - Telegraph

I would be kissing something for the rest of my life.
I know that area of the lower Hudson River very well. Passengers probably could not see the narrowness of the river between NY and NJ, the huge George Washington Bridge laden with 2 levels of late afternoon traffic, the challenge of avoiding the usual shipping traffic on the river including any oil tankers or barges headed upriver, the curve of the river...but the cockpit crew could. This pilot was amazing to pull this off, without the fuselage being ripped apart or the jet tumbling on impact.
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Old 02-05-2009, 10:06 AM   #34
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This pilot was amazing to pull this off, without the fuselage being ripped apart or the jet tumbling on impact.
In addition to the crew's skill and execution, aren't Americans also celebrating the amazing good luck involved in how so many variables all came together in a positive fashion leading to the happy results?
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Old 02-05-2009, 10:18 AM   #35
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In addition to the crew's skill and execution, aren't Americans also celebrating the amazing good luck involved in how so many variables all came together in a positive fashion leading to the happy results?
I don't think so. Most people know that the crews are trained for water landings, planes are built for them - this model had equipment that sealed outer openings.

What we don't know we might call luck, but once we understand it; it becomes training/planning/science etc.
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Old 02-05-2009, 10:44 AM   #36
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"Originally Posted by JOHNNIE36
I'd swear to God that you are an attorney (or retired)."

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I'm pretty sure there's a rule on this board about personal slurs. Please clean up your act.
Now I'm wishing I could at least see the original slurs. If "attorney" or "retired" were the only insults I received from Johnnie36 then I guess I wasn't trying hard enough.

Though I am unfortunately neither of those terms at this point. But I may be one or both of those at some point in the future. Only time will tell.
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Old 02-05-2009, 12:46 PM   #37
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Perhaps a play of the simulation clip at this site would be in order for the people thinking about suing.
New York plane crash: Flight 1549 almost hit George Washington Bridge - Telegraph
Wow, cool sim, thanks. I'm not sure clearing the bridge by 900 ft
really qualifies as "almost hitting it" under such low-level flight
conditions though; after all, aircraft executing normal landings
routinely clear obstacles by far less vertical distance than this.

Quote:
I would be kissing something for the rest of my life.
I know that area of the lower Hudson River very well. Passengers probably could not see the narrowness of the river between NY and NJ, the huge George Washington Bridge laden with 2 levels of late afternoon traffic, the challenge of avoiding the usual shipping traffic on the river including any oil tankers or barges headed upriver, the curve of the river...but the cockpit crew could. This pilot was amazing to pull this off, without the fuselage being ripped apart or the jet tumbling on impact.
Agreed, but I wonder about the lack of attention the right-seater is
getting. Account from a passenger: ... praising the unsung work of Jeff Skiles, the co-pilot.
"He had done the take-off, and then [after the loss of power] was trying to restart engines.
After they were not restarted, he set the flap positions and everything else you do to ditch the plane."

However, Sullenberger will be on 60 Minutes on Sunday, and I have
even more respect for him after hearing that the co-pilot and cabin
crew will be included in the interview (it wouldn't surprise me if he
had to insist on that with CBS ...)
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