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Old 02-04-2009, 05:12 AM   #1
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More on America's favorite pilot.

Now this guy is a role model
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"Miracle on the Hudson" pilot gets extension on overdue library book

Most Americans take their library privileges seriously. A recent Zogby poll found just six out of a hundred people confessed to not returning library books. KPCC’s Special Correspondent Kitty Felde found one library patron who’s more conscientious than most.
Kitty Felde: Chesley Sullenberger has a problem. He borrowed a book from the Danville Library – and it’s overdue. To complicate matters, the book was an interlibrary loan from Fresno State.
Sullenberger contacted librarians and asked for an extension on the loan and a waiver on the overdue fine. The reason? The book is in the cargo hold of the US Airways plane that made an emergency landing last month in New York’s Hudson River. Sullenberger is the pilot who made that landing. No one was seriously injured.
Fresno State library officials were impressed with Sullenberger’s sense of responsibility… and waived all fines and fees, even the one for losing the book. The library’s going one step further: when the replacement book goes up on the shelf, it will have a special template in front, dedicating it to Chesley “Sully” Sullenberger.
Oh, by the way. The topic of that book? Professional ethics.
[moderator edit]
Sadly despite US Airway giving the passengers on the flight $5,000 for lost luggage and inconvenience; a free flight, and premier gold status for a year, some passengers are already contacting lawyers about suing.
Is anybody else disgusted by this.
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Old 02-04-2009, 05:23 AM   #2
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Now this guy is a role model


Why can't President Obama find people with Capt. Sully character?

Sadly despite US Airway giving the passengers on the flight $5,000 for lost luggage and inconvenience; a free flight, and premier gold status for a year, some passengers are already contacting lawyers about suing.
Is anybody else disgusted by this.
You can't honestly believe that people WEREN'T going to sue.......It's the American way of life. If I was on that plane I'd still be kissing that pilot's A$$ for saving my life!

Mike
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Old 02-04-2009, 06:36 AM   #3
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Hope he is a Catholic - The Pope will consider him for Sainthood sometime in the next Century. I am not trying to be funny here either. He is one fine person.
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Old 02-04-2009, 07:18 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by clifp View Post
Sadly despite US Airway giving the passengers on the flight $5,000 for lost luggage and inconvenience; a free flight, and premier gold status for a year, some passengers are already contacting lawyers about suing.
Is anybody else disgusted by this.
There has been some talk that the engines on that plane have had problems - specifically stalling when taking off at a certain angle. I think it happened on a flight out of LGA. So, if true, and other issues, it is possible that someone other than the birds could have contributed to the crash. Do your research - this is from memory.
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Old 02-04-2009, 07:30 AM   #5
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There has been some talk that the engines on that plane have had problems - specifically stalling when taking off at a certain angle. I think it happened on a flight out of LGA. So, if true, and other issues, it is possible that someone other than the birds could have contributed to the crash. Do your research - this is from memory.
Yep - may be grounds for a negligence suit against the airline or an entity involved in the design, manufacture or maintenance of the aircraft or engines.

Obviously lost data on a laptop that is underwater and unrecoverable would be valued at more than $5000.
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Old 02-04-2009, 08:34 AM   #6
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Obviously lost data on a laptop that is underwater and unrecoverable would be valued at more than $5000.
And having no backup would not be negligence contributing to the loss. Of course not.
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Old 02-04-2009, 08:54 AM   #7
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Now this guy is a role model


Why can't President Obama find people with Capt. Sully character?

Sadly despite US Airway giving the passengers on the flight $5,000 for lost luggage and inconvenience; a free flight, and premier gold status for a year, some passengers are already contacting lawyers about suing.
Is anybody else disgusted by this.
Generally those with superb skills don't go around tooting their own horn. Takes a little digging to find them. Then there is the problem of convincing them to work for .... whomever. They (the skilled ones) tend to evaluate the offer and the character of the proposed new boss(es) and very often decline the offer.

As for the those not happy with the airline's offer, well there is no limit to what some will go to make a buck. From the info available, they will get nothing more. Frankly they should be happy at their dumb luck to be on an aircraft with a superb crew, both flight and cabin.

The previous day's compressor stall had nothing whatever to do with hitting a flight of geese.
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Old 02-04-2009, 10:45 AM   #8
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... some passengers are already contacting lawyers about suing.
Is anybody else disgusted by this.
Classic entrepreneurialistic capitalism in action!

The litigious ones clearly value themselves too highly to debase themselves upon the talk-show circuit...
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Old 02-04-2009, 10:46 AM   #9
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And having no backup would not be negligence contributing to the loss. Of course not.
I don't know the case law on that subject. And odds are the law of a comparative negligence state would apply in this case whereby the damages would be allocated based on fault. What percent is the airline or plane/engine mfrs at fault for allowing the engines to fail and what percent is the owner of the laptop at fault for failing to back up his own data?

What if he was coming back from a two week business trip with two 100 hr weeks worth of effort saved on his laptop valued at $500/hr? And he hasn't had a chance to backup due to being out of town.

Hypothetically speaking, there could be damages in excess of $5000 here. PTSD, future irrational fear of flying, flying anxiety, etc. If someone involved with keeping the plane in the air was negligent, I wouldn't want to bar someone with damages from recovering just because the pilot was highly skilled and all the passengers were safe and relatively physically unharmed.

Although the lawsuits may just be fishing expeditions at this point hoping to find something fishy during discovery.
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Old 02-04-2009, 11:16 AM   #10
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I read the other day that some of the petulant passengers believe they should be entitled to free upgrades and priority everything with US Airways for the rest of their lives.

I am sure it was a traumatic experience and everything else, however I am not seeing a lot of gratitude from some of these passengers that they came out of this alive. It almost feels as if for some it's their ticket to FIRE. Wonder how much of this is being stirred up by ambulance chasing lawyers (with apologies to those lawyers who do not fall into this category).
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Old 02-04-2009, 11:32 AM   #11
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I have a new entry for the 'bucket list':

  • Survive, unhurt, an airline crash. Lawsuit is not included
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Old 02-04-2009, 12:52 PM   #12
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What if he was coming back from a two week business trip with two 100 hr weeks worth of effort saved on his laptop valued at $500/hr? And he hasn't had a chance to backup due to being out of town.
Thumb-drive, thumb-drive, thumb-drive !! Seriously, I'd call it negligence
to not back up that much work, given the incredible cheapness and convenience
of thumb-drives. Can't say I'd actually have the foresight to keep the thing in
my pants pocket just in case of an emergency aircraft evacuation

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I read the other day that some of the petulant passengers believe they should be entitled to free upgrades
Seems like a nice gesture by the airline. Doesn't cost them anything ...
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Old 02-04-2009, 01:00 PM   #13
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Seems like a nice gesture by the airline. Doesn't cost them anything ...
Unless your best customers start having trouble getting upgrades and decide to consider taking their business elsewhere.
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Old 02-04-2009, 01:07 PM   #14
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Hypothetically speaking, there could be damages in excess of $5000 here. PTSD, future irrational fear of flying, flying anxiety, etc. If someone involved with keeping the plane in the air was negligent, I wouldn't want to bar someone with damages from recovering just because the pilot was highly skilled and all the passengers were safe and relatively physically unharmed.

Although the lawsuits may just be fishing expeditions at this point hoping to find something fishy during discovery.
I can't argue with you legally, and suppose there maybe some potential for bad maintenance, (although not tightening screw #34 properly I would think would be dwarfed by being hit by 7 1/2 bird on contributory basis).

Still if I was on the jury, I'd not only find for US Airways, but I'd be want to see the plaintiffs pay for US Airs legal fees.
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Old 02-04-2009, 01:15 PM   #15
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I'm going to guess that slick lawyers can always find negligence in just about every air craft accident. Heck, in just about any accident.

Sully did a fine job, but could have 'proper' action avoided those birds?
Should the air lines have had a policy on birds in the area that 'would have avoided this accident'
If he _____ or _____ he would have been able to land the AC on a runway.
Maintenance write ups show the coffee pot was having problems that led to the bird strike.

IMO, prior engine compressor stalls has nothing to do with this accident. The crew said 'we just hit a flock of birds' then there was engine problems. Compressor stalls on both engines at the same time? Doubtful. Something to sue over. Sure, they just may settle, and if the passengers are lucky, they will thet the $.25 while the lawyers get the millions.
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Old 02-04-2009, 01:48 PM   #16
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Just for the record, from what little I know, it seems this was a legitimate bird strike and not negligence on behalf of the airlines. But I know very little about the incident. I haven't seen maintenance logs or reviewed "the black box" or ATC records/conversations. I haven't even read a news article about the incident since it first happened. Just saying that there may be negligence somewhere along the way and that, if so, it would be grounds for recovery for any passengers that sustained damages (broadly defined).

If I were on the jury, I would listen to the facts, evidence, and testimony presented to me by both sides, and listen to the judge for instructions on the decisive points of law upon which I am being asked to make decisions as to who is negligent, for what, and to what extent. Without really knowing fully what happened, we are all just speculating at this point. I will say that the pilot seems to have done a spectacular job under the circumstances, regardless of whatever caused the emergency situation.

I guess I'm just playing devil's advocate here. Or passenger's advocate. But I do share general disdain for the ambulance chasing attorney types out there.
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Old 02-04-2009, 02:38 PM   #17
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Well, let's say the engine compressor stalled, at the same time birds hit the other engine resulting in a dual engine flame out. And let's say the engine experienced a compressor stall two days before. Now unless the airline just signed off the compressor stall with no engine inspection or anything, the may be guilty.

The problem I have, is they most likely took the maintenance steps set out in the manuals, and the engine passed. They then sent it off to fly. In hind site, with the advantage of a Monday morning quarterback, a lawyer extracts millions of dollars of 'punitive' damages when in fact everyone was doing exactly what they thought,and trained to do. If you fly air planes Sh*t happens. Sometimes you recover, sometimes you don't.
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Old 02-04-2009, 02:45 PM   #18
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If you fly air planes Sh*t happens. Sometimes you recover, sometimes you don't.
I thought that saying went "Sometimes it's in your pants, sometimes it's in the crew's pants, often it's in both."
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Old 02-04-2009, 02:51 PM   #19
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The problem I have, is they most likely took the maintenance steps set out in the manuals, and the engine passed. They then sent it off to fly. In hind site, with the advantage of a Monday morning quarterback, a lawyer extracts millions of dollars of 'punitive' damages when in fact everyone was doing exactly what they thought,and trained to do. If you fly air planes Sh*t happens. Sometimes you recover, sometimes you don't.
The airline has the duty to exercise a standard of care that a reasonably prudent person would employ. In this case, the standard of care would be measured by what a skilled airline maintenance tech or supervisor would be held to. It is really a question of fact and I don't know what the outcome would be or what the maintenance records would show. If the birds knocked out both engines simultaneously and the compressor failure had nothing to do with it, then the compressor failure did not cause the incedent (causation is a required element in establishing negligence).

If their maintenance policies are adequate and reasonable and they are following those policies this would suggest that they are exercising a reasonable standard of care.

There may still be a claim that says the engine was improperly designed to withstand eating a few geese, but that may be a loser too if it just isn't possible or feasible to design a goose proof jet engine.

Another claim of negligence could rest on poor route selection if that area was particularly prone to geese flights and the airline knew or should have known of this.

I have no clue what the facts are, just laying out a couple of claims that could be made and supported by facts obtained during fishing expeditions.
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Old 02-04-2009, 03:04 PM   #20
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There may still be a claim that says the engine was improperly designed to withstand eating a few geese, but that may be a loser too if it just isn't possible or feasible to design a goose proof jet engine.
.

I have no clue what the facts are, just laying out a couple of claims that could be made and supported by facts obtained during fishing expeditions.
I'd love to see a jet engine design, that actually flies, with a meat grinder ahead of the compressor blades.

Any graphic artist to do a conceptual drawing? If you can make it work Rolls Royce would love to hear from you.
Used to fly on a YS11 in the Aleutians, the pilots loved the plane and the RR engines. Though even these engines choked on eagles.
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