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Old 07-28-2013, 08:56 AM   #281
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In May we paid an extra $65 in electricity to drive 3000 miles. That would buy about 18 gallons of gas. Which would make our fuel cost the same if a gas car got about 185 mpg.
Wow, that holds a lot of appeal to me. I am anxious to see the next Tesla car model (not the SUV), as a second car...
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Old 07-28-2013, 09:13 AM   #282
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That $95 is about the cost of 24 gal of gas, which makes your cost the same as driving a car with 29mpg if you do not have solar charging.
I was surprised at that, cost-wise. I haven't run the numbers, but I wonder how many watts/mile that works out to for those 700 miles? Or is that watt-hours/mile? (sorry if I messed that up, on my first cup and multi-tasking to prep for lots of company today).

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Old 07-28-2013, 02:51 PM   #283
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I thought I read somewhere that the electric rate in Hawaii was something like $0.32 per kWh. Then that $95 bought around 300kWh. Divide that by 700 mi, then we have 420Wh per mile. Is that about right?

Where I am, the off-peak charge is $0.07 per kWh. That would bring the operating cost closer to what Zathras paid.

I think EVs are cool. However, I do not drive much as a retiree (except for my RV), so it does not make economic sense for me unless EVs are a lot less expensive. And I personally do not value high-tech and performance appeal enough to pay a premium for it, even though I had been a high-tech worker.

PS. I had a close friend who spent his life developing flight control systems and fly-by-wire systems (I was involved in this early in my career). Those require triplex and quadruplex arrangements to mitigate failure effects. He himself would not trust any highly automated system. I guess he has seen enough software bugs and hardware failures.
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Old 07-28-2013, 05:45 PM   #284
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The trick for EVs is all in the battery. I do not follow the EV development, but have been contemplating swapping out the lead-acid batteries in my RV for newer technology batteries that promise more power, less weight, but of course at a higher price.

I found that I could buy at the retail level a Lithium-Iron-Phosphate (LiFePO4) pack that has a capacity of 1.3KWh, a weight of 28 lbs, at a price of $620. This battery type is supposedly safe, and proposed for aircraft use. The 787 Dreamliner uses an older type of Lithium Cobalt Oxide battery. This LiFePO4 is also not the same lithium type as used in the Tesla.

Out of curiosity, I compute what it would cost to put this LiFePO4 into the Tesla. At 85KWh, the pack would weight 1830 lbs, and cost $40K. I've read that Tesla priced its replacement battery at $12K. Of course one gets a lower price when buying in bulk, but that $12K is cheap by comparison.
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Old 07-28-2013, 07:48 PM   #285
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So its been 5 weeks since I've got the car. I am still amazed by in many ways.

Fortunately my PV system and 220 volt charging got activated this week, cause my electric bill jumped $95 last month and with only 700 miles on the car, crazy electricity rates in Hawaii.

I also had an experience which all of us software engineers have joked about for years especially regarding Microsoft products.

Thursday, my touchpad panel went all screwy. It took for ever to boot, the display lighting was all wrong. Functionality was missing, and particularly annoying neither the radio nor AC worked. Fortunately the 2nd time it happened I was just a few miles away from the Tesla center. So they instructed me how to reboot the car. Press and hold two scroll buttons on the steer wheel. Just like a regular computer that cured the problem, and funnily enough that night Tesla sent out a Car OS update.

Anyway I've talked about seeing Microsoft blue screen of death on a car for decades, so I kinda of got a kick out of seeing it real life.

Awsome, Tesla managed for a small fee to reduce the Three Finger Salute, CTRL, ALT, DEL. to two finger salute. Dating a bit, that has not worked since DOS 3.1 maybe? Guess two finger salute beats sticking a screwdriver into the carb to force the choke open.
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Old 07-28-2013, 09:51 PM   #286
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Wow, that holds a lot of appeal to me. I am anxious to see the next Tesla car model (not the SUV), as a second car...
Yeah, that is my dream car as well.
The S is awesome, but it is big. I prefer a smaller car. Third gen sedan should be just the ticket.
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Old 07-28-2013, 09:57 PM   #287
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I thought I read somewhere that the electric rate in Hawaii was something like $0.32 per kWh. Then that $95 bought around 300kWh. Divide that by 700 mi, then we have 420Wh per mile. Is that about right?
...
There are also charger loss to consider, and a steady drain due to systems that basically always run.
While I don't know what Cliff is getting, we have averaged about 285 Watts/mile over the summer and about 380 over the winter here in Minnesota.
While cliff doesn't have the winters we get, the elevation changes may end up costing some power.
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Old 07-28-2013, 10:28 PM   #288
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I am at 340 Watt/miles. The 1,000 foot climb I make to get home really makes a difference on the 4-8 mile trips I typically make. I pick up a mile or two of range going down the hill. I am sure there are times I obey the speed limit but that is only because of traffic. :-(

On the other hand my old car went through the same climb but got no benefits from regenerative breaking which and so the mileage was around 21-22 MPG.
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Old 08-08-2013, 07:33 PM   #289
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Wanted to get one more thing in before this thread is done for good. As I write (type) I am watching a TV show on the construction of the Tesla, both the S type and the sedan. The show is on the AWE channel or Wealth as they call it such as "Wealth on Wheels", "Wealth on the Water", Wealth in the Air", etc.

I didn't get to see it in total but it will be back on again. From what I gather, the vehicle is produced in the UK and shipped to California for final assembly. Is that right?
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Old 08-08-2013, 08:15 PM   #290
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Wanted to get one more thing in before this thread is done for good. As I write (type) I am watching a TV show on the construction of the Tesla, both the S type the and the sedan. The show is on the AWE channel or Wealth as they call it such as "Wealth on Wheels", "Wealth on the Water", Wealth in the Air", etc.

I didn't get to see it in total but it will be back on again. From what I gather, the vehicle is produced in the UK and shipped to California for final assembly. Is that right?
That used to be the case for the Roadsters. That is not the case for the Model S, which is their luxury sedan (which technically is a hatchback).

The Roadster was built using a modified Lotus Elise chassis.
The Model S is built in a factory in California. National Geographic did a really neat show on it

As an aside, the NHTSA just officially rated the Model S 5 stars across the board.
Lowest rollover chance of any sedan, or sports car I could find
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Old 08-08-2013, 08:44 PM   #291
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Lowest rollover chance of any sedan, or sports car I could find
Just remember: Cars that are hard to roll over are also hard to roll back to the upright position. And who's gonna volunteer roll you back onto your wheels and send you on your way with all those sparks and arcing noises happening?

A semi-related video. I'd never seen a Robin Reliant before, but I guess this 3 wheeled car was common at one time in parts of the UK. Looks a little, well, "tippy".
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Old 08-08-2013, 08:47 PM   #292
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...the $7500 tax credit for people to buy electric cars does not sit well with me.
Just curious. How do you feel about the deduction for home mortgage interest?
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Old 08-08-2013, 08:52 PM   #293
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...I guess this 3 wheeled car was common at one time in parts of the UK. Looks a little, well, "tippy".
In the united states, a 3 wheel car is actually classified as a motorcycle. Morgan, a British company, actually sells such a car here. Morgan 3 Wheeler

The Bombardier Can Am Spyder is a 3 wheel vehicle that is more like a snowmobile than a car or motorcycle. Can-Am Spyder 3-wheel motorcycle, ATV, UTV, Side-by-Side | BRP Can-Am
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Old 08-09-2013, 05:09 AM   #294
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Just remember: Cars that are hard to roll over are also hard to roll back to the upright position. And who's gonna volunteer roll you back onto your wheels and send you on your way with all those sparks and arcing noises happening?
...
I'm not so sure about that.
If the car is on its side, the weight is also distributed to one side. This would, I would think, make it easier to tip back onto its wheels.
If upside down, the weight would be at the top. It is a heavy vehicle (4700 lbs) so would be as difficult as any other 4700lbs vehicle to flip.

I would be more concerned about the strength of the roof though, as I really am not concerned about how difficult the car is to flip back upright, while I would be focused on people being able to exit the vehicle.

Of course, far better if it doesn't flip in the first place

I'd be far more comfortable rolling over an EV than a vehicle loaded with far more volatile liquids
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Old 08-09-2013, 05:33 AM   #295
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Tesla have a low center of gravity short of some hollywood stunt where you are driving with one wheel on divider not sure how you roll the sucker.

Found this factoid while Googling.

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The Model S is so structurally sound, that the NHTSA’s roof crush resistance testing machine actually broke when they tried to test the Model S under it.
The Model S’s roof crush resistance is over twice the requirement by the NHTSA.
The crash test pictures are here kinda of shame to waste such a nice car.
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Old 08-09-2013, 10:35 AM   #296
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Glad I saw this thread.... reminded me of what I wanted to say...


We just finished a trip going out to California... we were driving on Hwy 1 from LA to SF... along the way I noticed that the car in front of us was a Tesla Model S.... when it wanted, it could take off!!! I think that I followed it for more than 30 miles... I was wondering how far it could go in the hills... but, it took the hills and the turns easily...

We finally stopped someplace and they went on their way...
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Old 08-09-2013, 10:45 AM   #297
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DD lives in Los Altos where Teslas abound. SIL would point one out and tell me what it cost... ouch! Frankly I appreciate all those early adapters, their purchases make it possible to create an industry where there will be efficiencies in mass production.

My dream is Google's self driving car.. but make it electric - thank you so much.
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Old 08-09-2013, 04:05 PM   #298
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DD lives in Los Altos where Teslas abound. SIL would point one out and tell me what it cost... ouch! Frankly I appreciate all those early adapters, their purchases make it possible to create an industry where there will be efficiencies in mass production.

My dream is Google's self driving car.. but make it electric - thank you so much.
If I wasn't lazy. I'd pursue my business idea.

A fleet of automated electric taxis. It would combine Uber technology (an app that automated taxi pickup) with Google Self Driving technology, and Tesla batter swap technology. The cost would be super low, no taxi cab driver to pay and tip. electric cars have really low maintenance so fleet utilization would high, especially if filling up the tank could be done in 90 seconds. In markets were it made sense you could use solar energy to make operating cost even lower.

Anyway I think you could get cost down to $.50/miles so that a 5 mile cab ride would only cost $2.50. At the price I think a lot of price I suspect a lot of people would elect to give up their second car.

I also have some ideas using these taxis to make carpooling super practical.
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Old 08-09-2013, 05:17 PM   #299
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Using a Tesla car would be a huge capital investment.

Can't you see a fleet of vehicles at SJC where using Uber you reserve one for a specific Silicon Valley address? I would LOVE that.
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Old 08-09-2013, 06:06 PM   #300
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If I wasn't lazy. I'd pursue my business idea.

A fleet of automated electric taxis. It would combine Uber technology (an app that automated taxi pickup) with Google Self Driving technology, and Tesla batter swap technology. The cost would be super low, no taxi cab driver to pay and tip. electric cars have really low maintenance so fleet utilization would high, especially if filling up the tank could be done in 90 seconds. In markets were it made sense you could use solar energy to make operating cost even lower.

Anyway I think you could get cost down to $.50/miles so that a 5 mile cab ride would only cost $2.50. At the price I think a lot of price I suspect a lot of people would elect to give up their second car.

I also have some ideas using these taxis to make carpooling super practical.
Johnny Cab?
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