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Old 05-30-2015, 10:38 AM   #621
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Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
You STILL have not addressed the issue I brought up - EVs, even on a very 'green' grid charge on the marginal non-renewable supply, and will into the future.

You sure cover a lot of other ground, but haven't even touched on how my analysis can be wrong, other than to just declare it. Again, if this is wrong - show me. Not sales, goals, opinions, etc - real analysis. Kilowatt hours, stuff like that.
That's because I don't care about your personal question or doing research for it. You pointed out this is not your thread by pointing to the OP but you think you own it for your personal research project. Thread was about Tesla Model S and OP mentioned LEAF and Volt. Article mentioned was about Tesla's secret plan: http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/secr...een-you-and-me

Go to a tech sub-forums thread of various electric car sites and you will be blown out of the water. Not the sub-forums talking about the cars but the tech or off-topic areas. Lot of engineers and people in the electronic fields buy these cars. LEAF and TeslaMotorsClub have lot of techies on them.

I've been following the electric car (BEV, PHEV/EREV) closely for over 3 years by the big and small players.

I've read countless presentations and articles on how the electric grid keeps cleaner and cleaner in the past 3+ years. Progress that happens continually. I'm not going to do your research and relocate them for you.

I was one of the early adopter on the Chevrolet Volt GEN I ("first" mass PHEV/EREV) and am happy that all the purchases and feedback have allowed them to work on and get a 2016 GEN II out. It is a great ride and I pointed out the only maintenance required.

I could drive a cheap beater but why not enjoy the fruits of my labor and be part of something bigger as well.

I am on an hourly rate plan and charge in the middle of the night. No impact on grid and drive for cheap.

Lot of other manufacturers now making BEV/PHEV and planning for now and near future. Certainly at a tipping point has happened in the past year.
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Old 05-30-2015, 11:43 AM   #622
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Originally Posted by eroscott View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
You STILL have not addressed the issue I brought up - EVs, even on a very 'green' grid charge on the marginal non-renewable supply, and will into the future.

You sure cover a lot of other ground, but haven't even touched on how my analysis can be wrong, other than to just declare it. Again, if this is wrong - show me. Not sales, goals, opinions, etc - real analysis. Kilowatt hours, stuff like that.
That's because I don't care about your personal question or doing research for it. ...
Obviously - but you care enough to describe me with 'ridiculous near-sighted and narrow minded comments. You have such a limited amount of knowledge about this and related topics that "you don't know what you don't know" as they say.'.

But providing any data to that effect is beneath you I guess. Dish it out, but...?


Quote:
You pointed out this is not your thread by pointing to the OP but you think you own it for your personal research project. Thread was about Tesla Model S and OP mentioned LEAF and Volt. Article mentioned was about Tesla's secret plan: The Secret Tesla Motors Master Plan (just between you and me) | Tesla Motors
I'm not sure what your point is there (This is a Tesla thread, in the 'Other Topics' area), but thanks for that link. It fills in a missing bit of info that I'm putting together for my next post, where Tesla's own (biased, non-apples-to-apple numbers as you will see) show that the Model S (even based on some future hypothetical grid) is less efficient than today's hybrids, and about on par with conventional gas engine cars. Oooops!


Quote:
Go to a tech sub-forums thread of various electric car sites and you will be blown out of the water. Not the sub-forums talking about the cars but the tech or off-topic areas. Lot of engineers and people in the electronic fields buy these cars. LEAF and TeslaMotorsClub have lot of techies on them.
Gimme some links! Have I ever given the impression that I'm not up to being challenged on this information? You certainly have done nothing to disprove anything I've said, so bring on your 'techies'.


Quote:
I've been following the electric car (BEV, PHEV/EREV) closely for over 3 years by the big and small players.

I've read countless presentations and articles on how the electric grid keeps cleaner and cleaner in the past 3+ years. Progress that happens continually. I'm not going to do your research and relocate them for you.
That's nice. But as I have documented, the greening of the grid has little/no effect regarding added demand, such as EVs. But you don't seem to absorb that, or simply don't want to, so you try to divert the topic.


Quote:
I am on an hourly rate plan and charge in the middle of the night. No impact on grid and drive for cheap.
If there's no impact on the grid, that means you must only be using excess that can't be used elsewhere. Now that could be possible under certain conditions, like if they can only throttle down the coal and nukes to X%, and that exceeds the night time demand. But if that is regularly the case, what are all those wind turbines doing spinning at night, just throwing their energy away because we already have an excess? I don't think that's the case on a regular basis. It sure would make payback on wind turbines longer, as most of their power is developed at night, and there would be no market for it.


Quote:
Lot of other manufacturers now making BEV/PHEV and planning for now and near future. Certainly at a tipping point has happened in the past year.
You keep going back to sales figures and models. I've never questioned sales figures and models. I'm questioning (actually, based on the feedback and further study, I'm going from questioning towards countering) the idea that EVs are good for the environment. Now and into the far future.

-ERD50
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Old 05-30-2015, 01:42 PM   #623
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Thanks for the informative discussion.

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