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Re: More political ranting
Old 10-26-2006, 11:04 AM   #21
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Re: More political ranting

I'm more concerned about the timeless fight for justice than this temporary "war" on terror. If we had kept our eyes on the prize--Bin Laden and Al Qaeda--instead of the neocon agenda for world domination and more oil, America and the world would be a much better place today. That Bush was so easily garden-pathed by these bad actors is a tragic heartbreak from where I sit. (But maybe I'm seeing it incorrectly...I gotta go to the eye doc momentarily--new lenses needed, I'm sure.)
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Re: More political ranting
Old 10-26-2006, 11:23 AM   #22
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Re: More political ranting

Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem
Congress gave the executive branch the authority to make these arrests under specific conditions. The courts have upheld this. That's the way the system works.
Which law was this?

Congress allowed Bush to fight the "war on terror," which John Yoo translated as "no courts, no rights, no habeas corpus." The Supreme Court disagreed and the detainees are now allowed military tribunals and legal counsel.


It's all fun and games until you get a potato sack put over your head.
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Re: More political ranting
Old 10-26-2006, 12:22 PM   #23
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Re: More political ranting

This says it all.

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Re: More political ranting
Old 10-26-2006, 12:25 PM   #24
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Re: More political ranting

Or how about this letter.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/...pats_birthday/
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Re: More political ranting
Old 10-26-2006, 12:43 PM   #25
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Re: More political ranting

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2B
Can't you stop beating up on John Kerry and Hillary Clinton? It's been years.
I am always fascinated and amazed at the neo-con's ability to delude themselves.

It's Clinton's fault.
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Re: More political ranting
Old 10-26-2006, 01:13 PM   #26
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Re: More political ranting

Read in the paper today that Cheney said Wednesday in a White House interview that the Bush administration doesn't regard water-boarding as torture and allows the CIA to use it.
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Re: More political ranting
Old 10-26-2006, 01:16 PM   #27
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Re: More political ranting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elderdude
Read in the paper today that Cheney said Wednesday in a White House interview that the Bush administration doesn't regard water-boarding as torture and allows the CIA to use it.
Where is that Elderdude? I've been poking around the net looking for it and can't find it.
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Re: More political ranting
Old 10-26-2006, 01:27 PM   #28
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Re: More political ranting

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/1206-29.htm

Perhaps the Justice Department could use this [water-boarding] to speed up some investigations that are taking forever. How about that two-year investigation into who leaked Valerie Plame's CIA status?

Stick Karl Rove on the water board and we can see who really leaked what in just a couple of minutes. That would be fair, wouldn't it? After all, his boss says it's not torture, right?

And how about this whole question about whether we were lied into the war in Iraq. I bet Dick Cheney would have the answer for that one, though the water board may be tough on his bad heart. At least we would know for sure if 2,120+ brave Americans died for a lie.
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Re: More political ranting
Old 10-26-2006, 01:39 PM   #29
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Re: More political ranting

Quote:
Originally Posted by eridanus
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/1206-29.htm

Perhaps the Justice Department could use this [water-boarding] to speed up some investigations that are taking forever. How about that two-year investigation into who leaked Valerie Plame's CIA status?

Stick Karl Rove on the water board and we can see who really leaked what in just a couple of minutes. That would be fair, wouldn't it? After all, his boss says it's not torture, right?

And how about this whole question about whether we were lied into the war in Iraq. I bet Dick Cheney would have the answer for that one, though the water board may be tough on his bad heart. At least we would know for sure if 2,120+ brave Americans died for a lie.
Thanks eridanus, but the story you linked to just references "sources." I'd like to get the actual Cheney quote from Wednesday that Elderdude refers to. I've got a pub buddy I'd like to show it to.......
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Re: More political ranting
Old 10-26-2006, 01:51 PM   #30
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Re: More political ranting

Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet
Thanks eridanus, but the story you linked to just references "sources." I'd like to get the actual Cheney quote from Wednesday that Elderdude refers to. I've got a pub buddy I'd like to show it to.......
Oh, that wasn't a reply to your question. I just thought it was funny.

I found an editorial at the WP discussing it but no primary sources. Wait, how about this?

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1026/dailyUpdate.html


Edit:

"ABCNews reported last year that it began as a practice in the 1500s during the Italian Inquisition. Soldiers who had used it during US conflicts in the 20th century have been court-martialed. It was declared illegal by US generals during the Vietnam War."

If it's good enough for the Inquisition, it's good enough for Cheney!

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Re: More political ranting
Old 10-26-2006, 02:04 PM   #31
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Re: More political ranting

OK thanks eridanus. Not exactly what I was expecting based on Elderdude's post, but close enough for a pub debate.
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Re: More political ranting
Old 10-26-2006, 02:29 PM   #32
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Re: More political ranting

HE LIED!!! HE LIED!!! HE LIED!!!

It's interesting that those who take a short view of things keep saying this about Bush. Did someone forget to mention WMD was discovered in Iraq. Oh ya, wait a minute those weren't the right kind or they're old so they might not be strong enough. Let's see I'm sitting in a foxhole and the bomb that just went pppffftttt and spewed a cloud of gas instead of going boom. It's ok though it contains stuff that only might kill me. We ain't I relieved that I'll only be suffering for a long period watching any children I create suffer from the poison I was exposed to, because it wasn't strong enough to kill the old man.

My vote is let's outlaw the military. That way we don't have to worry about it ever being mis used again. This is a stupid argument. Every major intelligence agency in the world believed Iraq had WMD. WMD were found in his possession. He said he destroyed all of them, but they were found. A dictator like Saddam does not lose his WMD. It is what keeps him in power.
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Re: More political ranting
Old 10-26-2006, 02:52 PM   #33
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Re: More political ranting

youbet

here is the McClatchy article on Cheney and waterboarding

http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwash...athan_s_landay

disgusting

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Re: More political ranting
Old 10-26-2006, 02:57 PM   #34
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Re: More political ranting

Here is the Whitehouse transcript of the interview.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0061024-7.html
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Re: More political ranting
Old 10-26-2006, 03:05 PM   #35
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Re: More political ranting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha
Here is the Whitehouse transcript of the interview.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0061024-7.html
Ahhhh...... Excellent Martha! The real stuff. Thanks!!
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Re: More political ranting
Old 10-26-2006, 03:08 PM   #36
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Re: More political ranting

Quote:
Originally Posted by lets-retire
Did someone forget to mention WMD was discovered in Iraq.
Classic Cheney move: Keep repeating it until it becomes the "truth."
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Re: More political ranting
Old 10-26-2006, 03:21 PM   #37
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Re: More political ranting

Quote:
Originally Posted by eridanus
Classic Cheney move: Keep repeating it until it becomes the "truth."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004May17.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,200601,00.html

http://www.mrc.org/press/2006/press20060623.asp
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Re: More political ranting
Old 10-26-2006, 03:35 PM   #38
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Re: More political ranting

"Kimmitt said he would leave it to the Iraq Survey Group to determine whether the discovery of the sarin in the artillery shell represents confirmation that Hussein possessed stockpiles of chemical weapons."

Guess what they determined?


Hey, there were plenty of people who still supported Nixon after he was impeached too.
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Re: More political ranting
Old 10-26-2006, 04:22 PM   #39
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Re: More political ranting

Quote:
Originally Posted by eridanus
Classic Cheney move: Keep repeating it until it becomes the "truth."
The neo-con strategy. Repeat the lies like a religious chant and blame Clinton.

It's an oldy but a goody.
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Re: More political ranting
Old 10-26-2006, 05:12 PM   #40
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Re: More political ranting

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgeeeee
I am always fascinated and amazed at the neo-con's ability to delude themselves.

It's Clinton's fault.
I grow tired of either side using their "talking points" that are more designed as sound bites than as real truth. "Bush lied" is probably the best example. It's repeated by every half-wit dem that can find a microphone.

Any review of the data at the time comes up with the same conclusion. Iraq was actively working on WMD. They were intentionally frustrating the UN inspectors. No credible person claimed they didn't have WMD based on the available data. The entire leadership of both parties riled at their WMDs. Only after the fact, does one party act "shocked" and try to make it appear that there was an intentional attempt to mislead the American people.

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