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Old 06-05-2014, 04:59 PM   #61
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Here's a question. Maybe it's been talked about before I haven't found it.

Since Windows has so many non-fans and nobody really, actually likes it, they just use it because "everybody else does", and because lots of you are engineer/tech types.....
Ah, but your assumption is false. Even though I am an "engineer/tech type", I really, actually like Windows in all of its various incarnations. I even liked Me, and Vista. I was the very FIRST person in College Station, Texas to be sold Windows 95 when it first came out. Yes, I waited in line for it just like iPhone fans wait for their new telephones these days. And even though everyone was sourly growling and loudly complaining about Windows 95 and saying how much better Windows 3.1 was at that time, I said I liked it. So shoot me now and get it over.
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Old 06-05-2014, 06:44 PM   #62
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I needed TeX. Fast (i'd made a big mistake on a presentation). I couldn't believe I didn't need to go into work to fix it!
We had documents in Runoff ( more of a type setter , similar to Tex, LaTex ) on a Prime minicomputer, and Dec Alphas with openVMS and a few other things.
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Old 06-05-2014, 06:48 PM   #63
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...does anybody here engage the computing world via Linux? Maybe saving Windows for a few minor chores Linux doesn't handle?
I use windows PCs to download virus/malware so I can see what they do and remove them

I guess I do keep one running for Quicken because I have been to lazy to convert it over to one of the linux ones like GnuCash or moneydance. Can't think of much else. I guess games were a sticking point if you are into those. Also just to learn/test new windows releases.
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Old 06-05-2014, 07:04 PM   #64
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I was to go to Canada and give a talk. I found errors in my paper and slides.

I stayed up really late to fix it (but at least I could with Linux).

I get to the airport, get on a plane, and am seated next to a mom and her little boy (probably 7 or so). I was trying to review the material, and this kid kept drooling on it. Then the mom leans over, points at it, and says, "IS THAT A MATRIX??".

Then the taxi guy forgot to give me my bags. I drank vodka and spoke crap French the rest of the week!
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Old 06-05-2014, 08:14 PM   #65
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I now like Windows 8.1. On balance, that is. There are still a lot of things I hate, but overall, I am enjoying it now. Part of that is due to the nice keyboard and large screen.

My main complaints are with the lack of consistency. Windows was supposed to have a consistent interface for all apps. That worked great for a while, but now many developers have gotten all artistic and ignored standards. Options in different places, no menus, etc.

But the worst is that even Microsoft is not consistent. Change the display settings, and you have to press Apply. Change the power settings, and you don't. Other dialogs have OK, Cancel. Some dialogs have an Apply, but you have to scroll down or you miss it.

The worst (I better stop soon) is the error messages that pretty much just say "An error happened." Imagine if every error message had a unique number that you could look up on the net.
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Old 06-05-2014, 09:40 PM   #66
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The worst (I better stop soon) is the error messages that pretty much just say "An error happened." Imagine if every error message had a unique number that you could look up on the net.
That's pretty consistent for MS, been that way since DOS. Like " Error Opening File"... OK, what #$@%! file are you trying to open!

Actually there are code numbers which can be looked up.

System Error Codes (Windows)

And there are some error code lookup tools

Windows Error Code & Message Lookup Tools
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Old 06-06-2014, 08:06 AM   #67
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Yes, but unless those code numbers appear in the error dialog, they don't help. The best strategy is to Google the exact text of the message, then you get to see forum posts by thousands of others with the same problem (and sometimes a solution).

In my programming days, I realized that it's not always the fault of the app's programmers; the OS simply doesn't always return clear information about what went wrong.
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Old 06-06-2014, 03:28 PM   #68
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...

In my programming days, I realized that it's not always the fault of the app's programmers; the OS simply doesn't always return clear information about what went wrong.
I've run into that, but even if the OS doesn't tell you what's wrong, hopefully the error trapping in your program can throw out something about what was going on when the error occurred. But I guess sometimes the OS grabs the error and throws it out, w/o getting back to the program control?

Or the error occurs in a generic subroutine that was called thousands of times - difficult sometimes to throw out anything useful to identify any uniqueness.

But this was long ago and I'm fuzzy on the details, and they will all vary depending on OS and language and so on.

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Old 02-24-2015, 11:02 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by razztazz View Post
Here's a question. Maybe it's been talked about before I haven't found it.

Since Windows has so many non-fans and nobody really, actually likes it, they just use it because "everybody else does", and because lots of you are engineer/tech types.....

...does anybody here engage the computing world via Linux? Maybe saving Windows for a few minor chores Linux doesn't handle?
I finally got around to trying out Linux Mint on an extra PC I have laying around. Overall, very nice (heck I could even make a shortcut to applications ).

One frustrating thing though (maybe I just don't know how to make things work) is getting some applications that I like. The a Linux version, but not for Mint? For example, I like the Maxthon web browser. Maxthon says there's a linux version. I go the the Software Manager in Linux Mint, but Maxthon isn't listed. Does this mean, "sorry Charlie" until the browser works with Mint?

The same with Teamviewer. There's a Linux version, but I guess not one for Mint.
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Old 02-24-2015, 11:19 PM   #70
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I finally got around to trying out Linux Mint on an extra PC I have laying around. Overall, very nice (heck I could even make a shortcut to applications ).

One frustrating thing though (maybe I just don't know how to make things work) is getting some applications that I like. The a Linux version, but not for Mint? For example, I like the Maxthon web browser. Maxthon says there's a linux version. I go the the Software Manager in Linux Mint, but Maxthon isn't listed. Does this mean, "sorry Charlie" until the browser works with Mint?

The same with Teamviewer. There's a Linux version, but I guess not one for Mint.
The various distributions package some software. If you want to you can go to the maxthon page and download it. Here are instructions on how to do that: How To Install Maxthon Cloud Browser 1.0.5.3 On Ubuntu, Linux Mint, Debian, Elementary OS, Fedora, CentOS, Mageia, OpenSUSE And OpenMandriva | LinuxG.net
That is of course not for the faint of heart since you actually have to use the command prompt to do the install. (that is what the dpkg command on the second line is all about)
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Old 02-25-2015, 05:49 AM   #71
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I finally got around to trying out Linux Mint on an extra PC I have laying around. Overall, very nice (heck I could even make a shortcut to applications ).

One frustrating thing though (maybe I just don't know how to make things work) is getting some applications that I like. The a Linux version, but not for Mint? For example, I like the Maxthon web browser. Maxthon says there's a linux version. I go the the Software Manager in Linux Mint, but Maxthon isn't listed. Does this mean, "sorry Charlie" until the browser works with Mint?

The same with Teamviewer. There's a Linux version, but I guess not one for Mint.
Linux Mint has a software updater (which you already know), and that application looks at approved repositories. You can add other repositories (sooner or later you will probably do this), but Maxthon is not in an approved third party repository. So go with meierlde link and have a go at it,

In that link it shows $ in the command line, but that is your prompt, and won't be typed in as part of the command.

You also need to find out if you need 32-bit or 64-bit version. Look for System Profiler, and it will give you this info.
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Old 02-25-2015, 06:31 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by razztazz View Post
Here's a question. Maybe it's been talked about before I haven't found it.

Since Windows has so many non-fans and nobody really, actually likes it, they just use it because "everybody else does", and because lots of you are engineer/tech types.....

...does anybody here engage the computing world via Linux? Maybe saving Windows for a few minor chores Linux doesn't handle?
There are engineer/tech types here who don't use Windows. We remain very happy with the Mac OS and Apple infrastructure. And part of that is because we are tech types and enjoy using nice tools.

BTW Apple uses Unix at the lowest levels of the MacOS.
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Old 02-25-2015, 09:13 AM   #73
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The various distributions package some software. If you want to you can go to the maxthon page and download it. Here are instructions on how to do that: How To Install Maxthon Cloud Browser 1.0.5.3 On Ubuntu, Linux Mint, Debian, Elementary OS, Fedora, CentOS, Mageia, OpenSUSE And OpenMandriva | LinuxG.net
That is of course not for the faint of heart since you actually have to use the command prompt to do the install. (that is what the dpkg command on the second line is all about)

Thanks for the link. I tried in the terminal screen but no go. Got some type of dependency error. That's okay as I'm not quite ready to jump ship anytime soon to a different OS.
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Old 02-25-2015, 09:16 AM   #74
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Linux Mint has a software updater (which you already know), and that application looks at approved repositories. You can add other repositories (sooner or later you will probably do this), but Maxthon is not in an approved third party repository. So go with meierlde link and have a go at it,

In that link it shows $ in the command line, but that is your prompt, and won't be typed in as part of the command.

You also need to find out if you need 32-bit or 64-bit version. Look for System Profiler, and it will give you this info.
I tried but no go. Thanks for the suggestion. I'll take the lazy man approach and wait until Maxthon is in one of their approved repositories

Overall, I like Mint and will poke around with that a bit more.
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Old 02-25-2015, 10:06 AM   #75
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I tried but no go. Thanks for the suggestion. I'll take the lazy man approach and wait until Maxthon is in one of their approved repositories

Overall, I like Mint and will poke around with that a bit more.
Sorry it did not work out for you. What is the version of your Linux Mint?

On an older P4, I went with Ubuntu 14.04 LTS.

Update:
Try this, then repeat the Maxthon install.
Code:
$ sudo apt-get install libgtkhotkey1
It worked for me.
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Old 02-25-2015, 11:22 AM   #76
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Sorry it did not work out for you. What is the version of your Linux Mint?

On an older P4, I went with Ubuntu 14.04 LTS.

Update:
Try this, then repeat the Maxthon install.
Code:
$ sudo apt-get install libgtkhotkey1
It worked for me.
Target,

Still no go, with a dependency problem. I appreciate your help. But it's okay as installing Maxthon isn't that critical as I'm just test driving Linux Mint for now. I'm using the current version which is 17.1.

My biggest problem is finding physical space to play around with Mint as I got a table set up on a desk in my already crowded living room. What I need is a cheap, old laptop that runs Mint 17.1
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Old 02-25-2015, 12:02 PM   #77
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Surprised that did not work. Your error during the first install must have been different than mine.

Cheap and old is what my kids call me!
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Old 02-25-2015, 02:25 PM   #78
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That is of course not for the faint of heart since you actually have to use the command prompt to do the install. (that is what the dpkg command on the second line is all about)
As a little aside, I would not describe going into the terminal as 'not for the faint of heart'.

I've been using Linux/Ubuntu/Xubuntu on my main machine(s) for almost 5 years (and on a side machine for another year or two before that). I customize my installation quite a bit, and I'm still a total klutz with terminal commands.

For the most part, when I do need to use them, it is because I found a solution from a web search, and they included the commands as part of the answer. As in the previous example, just two commands to cut/paste into the terminal:

$ wget dl.maxthon.com/linux/deb/packages/i386/maxthon-browser-stable_1.0.5.3_i386.deb

$ sudo dpkg -i maxthon-browser-stable_1.0.5.3_i386.deb

And the machine does the rest (well, usually - I see there were dependency issues with that installation of Mint, which I guess I've gotten a few times, but IIRC, those were usually fixed with another quick search).

When I first got into Linux, I was kind of put off by all these answers in forums with terminal commands, it looked scary. And I'd often find there was a very simple GUI already in the system which did the same thing with just a mouse click to check a box. For a while, I just thought these were geeky show-offs with their 'secret' terminal language, trying to look all superior.

But then I learned the real reason - give someone a terminal command, and it is copy/paste and you are done. The terminal commands are very stable, and common across many installations.

But try to tell someone how to open that dialog box, navigate to such and such tab, scroll down until you find the right box to check takes a lot more words, and 9 times out of 10, their dialog box will be a slightly different version, and the check box was moved to some other tab, or something.

So the terminal is really just an easy way to communicate very specific instructions, with less chance of error. Just make sure you are on a reputable sight, so you don't enter some dangerous code from some jerk. I've never seen that, but they warn about it.

-ERD50
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Old 02-25-2015, 02:30 PM   #79
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Surprised that did not work. Your error during the first install must have been different than mine.

Cheap and old is what my kids call me!
If I play around with things more, perhaps I could get that to work. But I'll hold off and just put my "Linux Mint" computer in the closet until another time when I'm in the mood to poke around.

Anytime thinking about moving to another OS or upgrading, I think about what programs I really need and if I could find an equivalent with a change. For example, I really like the password manager which I use on Windows. I may find something somewhat similar in Linux but if that adds a couple of keystrokes or mouse clicks each time use my id/password, that's a deal breaker for me.

That said, there experience was nice not having to worry about looking for a proper driver and web browsing didn't pause every so often like the way my machine does with Win 7.
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Old 02-25-2015, 02:35 PM   #80
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As a little aside, I would not describe going into the terminal as 'not for the faint of heart'....

-ERD50
Not gonna quote your entire post.

The way I look at the terminal thing or not is similar to some who are fine with/prefer to drive a stick shift vs an automatic. For some, driving a stick is natural, they like the manual control, for others they want to just keep things very simple and have nothing to do with a stick shift.

I see both sides.
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