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Re: Muslims face extra checks in new travel crackdown
Old 08-15-2006, 03:54 PM   #21
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Re: Muslims face extra checks in new travel crackdown

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Originally Posted by JB
I was thinking that the root cause is a broken keyboard or a virus.
Or maybe the tinfoil hat got in the way...
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Re: Muslims face extra checks in new travel crackdown
Old 08-15-2006, 04:01 PM   #22
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Re: Muslims face extra checks in new travel crackdown

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Originally Posted by IntoTheMystic
Security people will be trained to ask questions after observing unusual behavior -- such as failure to make eye contact, inappropriate clothing for the season
Hm, I guess I'll have to plan on spending more time at the airport next time I fly from LA to Hawaii with my winter coat. I doubt many TSA employees realize just how cold and windy it can get at the summit of Haleakalā...
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Re: Muslims face extra checks in new travel crackdown
Old 08-15-2006, 04:48 PM   #23
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Re: Muslims face extra checks in new travel crackdown

Quote:
razztazz, I'm gonna let that one go. But let me just say that I bow down before you: somone who appears to be a worse typist than me! I'm not worthy [salaam, salaam]...
Holy Sister Mary Gabriel, Batman! Ya know I've been trying to watch that lately BUT as I typed that I was eating dinner, so it didn't have my full attention.

Know what I was eating? Cous-cous. It's still a great f'ing country any way you slice it
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Re: Muslims face extra checks in new travel crackdown
Old 08-15-2006, 06:11 PM   #24
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Re: Muslims face extra checks in new travel crackdown

Anybody been to Israel lately.* I heard they have a system whereby they separate you 2 or 3 times from your luggage and that they profile your behavior, not your ethnicity.* In other words, they know what a terrorist acts like just before the deed.* They seem to be particularly effective, because the have to be.* Of course, their airline system is so much smaller than ours, maybe they look at 100%, people and things.* Just curious if anyone had any info. Whatever it is, we could use it. Results count, I always say, results; and in this particular instance the end justifies the means, no matter who is inconvienced or whose feelings are hurt.
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Re: Muslims face extra checks in new travel crackdown
Old 08-15-2006, 07:58 PM   #25
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Re: Muslims face extra checks in new travel crackdown

I only know what I've read about El Al--their system is effective, time-consuming, and intrusive. If we instituted it inthe US, there'd be no point in flying if you were going less than approx 400 miles--it would be quicker to drive if you figure all the time spent going to the airport, going through security, waiting in the gate area, actually flying, waiting for your bags at the distant end, etc.

Some countries line up the checked baggage outside the plane, then everyone getting on the plane is filed out to the bags. Each passenger moves their bags a few feet to a new line and then must immediately board the plane. Any bags that aren't ID'ed by persons boarding the plane don't go aboard and are subject to bomb squad attention. This won't stop a suicide bomber from being effective, but it makes darn sure that nobody checks a bomb onto the flight and then fails to board. It is low-tech, and at least it requires that the perpetrator be very committed.

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Re: Muslims face extra checks in new travel crackdown
Old 08-15-2006, 09:53 PM   #26
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Re: Muslims face extra checks in new travel crackdown

From Wikipedia:

Quote:
Though the majority of suicide bombers were and are male, female suicide bombers have carried out a number of attacks since 1985.

The first known suicide attack by a woman was carried out in Lebanon on April 9, 1985. Sana'a Mouhadly, a member of the Syrian Social Nationalist Party (SSNP), detonated an explosive-laden vehicle, which killed two Israeli soldiers and injured two more. Since then, female suicide bombers have been employed in several conflicts, by a variety of organizations, against both military and civilian targets:

Women of the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE), or Tamil Tigers, have perpetrated 3040% of the organization's suicide bombings, which number more than 200. Thenmuli Rajaratnam (also known as Dhanu), who assassinated Indian Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi in 1991, is the best-known of these bombers.

I don't pretend to know how a terrorist thinks, but if I were one I'd be using everyone EXCEPT young, Arab-looking males to get the bombs through.*

Heck yes, I want Grandma subject to search too!
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Re: Muslims face extra checks in new travel crackdown
Old 08-19-2006, 07:05 PM   #27
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Re: Muslims face extra checks in new travel crackdown

Interesting.* Logical next step ... consumers will vote with their feet ...

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Mutiny on Flight 613
Passengers refuse to allow holiday jet to take off until two Asian men are thrown off plane



By CHRISTOPHER LEAKE and ANDREW CHAPMAN

23:42pm 19th August 2006

British holidaymakers staged an unprecedented mutiny - refusing to allow their flight to take off until two men they feared were terrorists were forcibly removed.

The extraordinary scenes happened after some of the 150 passengers on a Malaga-Manchester flight overheard two men of Asian appearance apparently talking Arabic.

Passengers told cabin crew they feared for their safety and demanded police action. Some stormed off the Monarch Airlines Airbus A320 minutes before it was due to leave the Costa del Sol at 3am. Others waiting for Flight ZB 613 in the departure lounge refused to board it.

The incident fuels the row over airport security following the arrest of more than 20 people allegedly planning the suicide-bombing of transatlantic jets from the UK to America. It comes amid growing demands for passenger-profiling and selective security checks.

It also raised fears that more travellers will take the law into their own hands - effectively conducting their own 'passenger profiles'.

The passenger revolt came as Ryanair boss Michael O'Leary was accused of using the terror crisis to make money. Government sources say he boasted to an official at the Transport Department: "Every time I appear on TV, I get a spike in sales."

The Tories said the Government's failure to reassure travellers had led the Malaga passengers to 'behave irrationally' and 'hand a victory to terrorists'.

Websites used by pilots and cabin crew were yesterday reporting further incidents. In one, two British women with young children on another flight from Spain complained about flying with a bearded Muslim even though he had been security-checked twice before boarding.

The trouble in Malaga flared last Wednesday as two British citizens in their 20s waited in the departure lounge to board the pre-dawn flight and were heard talking what passengers took to be Arabic. Worries spread after a female passenger said she had heard something that alarmed her.

Passengers noticed that, despite the heat, the pair were wearing leather jackets and thick jumpers and were regularly checking their watches.

Initially, six passengers refused to board the flight. On board the aircraft, word reached one family. To the astonishment of cabin crew, they stood up and walked off, followed quickly by others.

The Monarch pilot - a highly experienced captain - accompanied by armed Civil Guard police and airport security staff, approached the two men and took their passports.

Half an hour later, police returned and escorted the two Asian passengers off the jet.

'There was no fuss or panic'

Soon afterwards, the aircraft was cleared while police did a thorough security sweep. Nothing was found and the plane took off - three hours late and without the two men on board.

Monarch arranged for them to spend the rest of the night in an airport hotel and flew them back to Manchester later on Wednesday.

College lecturer Jo Schofield, her husband Heath and daughters Emily, 15, and Isabel, 12, were caught up in the passenger mutiny.

Mrs Schofield, 38, said: "The plane was not yet full and it became apparent that people were refusing to board. In the gate waiting area, people had been talking about these two, who looked really suspicious with their heavy clothing, scruffy, rough, appearance and long hair.

"Some of the older children, who had seen the terror alert on television, were starting to mutter things like, 'Those two look like they're bombers.'

"Then a family stood up and walked off the aircraft. They were joined by others, about eight in all. We learned later that six or seven people had refused to get on the plane.

"There was no fuss or panic. People just calmly and quietly got off the plane. There were no racist taunts or any remarks directed at the men.

"It was an eerie scene, very quiet. The children were starting to ask what was going on. We tried to play it down."

Mr Schofield, 40, an area sales manager, said: "When the men were taken off they didn't argue or say a word. They just picked up their coats and obeyed the police. They seemed resigned to the fact they were under suspicion.

"The captain and crew were very apologetic when we were asked to evacuate the plane for the security search. But there was no dissent.

"While we were waiting, everyone agreed the men looked dodgy. Some passengers were very panicky and in tears. There was a lot of talking about terrorists."

Patrick Mercer, the Tory Homeland Security spokesman, said last night: "This is a victory for terrorists. These people on the flight have been terrorised into behaving irrationally.

"For those unfortunate two men to be victimised because of the colour of their skin is just nonsense."

Monarch said last night: "The captain was concerned about the security surrounding the two gentlemen on the aircraft and the decision was taken to remove them from the flight for further security checks.

"The two passengers offloaded from the flight were later cleared by airport security and rebooked to travel back to Manchester on a later flight."

A spokesman for the Civil Guard in Malaga said: "These men had aroused suspicion because of their appearance and the fact that they were speaking in a foreign language thought to be an Arabic language, and the pilot was refusing to take off until they were escorted off the plane."

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Re: Muslims face extra checks in new travel crackdown
Old 08-19-2006, 08:21 PM   #28
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Re: Muslims face extra checks in new travel crackdown

Lots of questions come to mind:
************
I wonder if market forces could be put to work to enhance security.

-- On an international flight, would customers be willing to pay more for a ticket on an airline that did pre-boarding interviews of all passengers? Or which gauranteed to have a plainclothes "private air marshall" on board?
***********
In the case of the "dodgy looking" passengers: If they'd passed though the security checks and there's was nothing else to objectively produce suspicion about them:
-- Should passengers who refused to board the plane get a refund with no questions asked?
-- Will the two "dodgy looking" passengers file a lawsuit now?

************

The terrorists do get a victory when folks are frightened into irrational behavior. Without actually seeing these guys and how they were behaving, though, it's hard to know just how we'd feel in getting aboard a plane with them. We might be seeing racial/cultural prejudice at work, but that is guess without knowing all the facts.
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Re: Muslims face extra checks in new travel crackdown
Old 08-19-2006, 09:05 PM   #29
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Re: Muslims face extra checks in new travel crackdown

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Originally Posted by brewer12345
I find the virulent racism and religious discrimination that has been going on to be disgusting, personally.
I trust by this you mean the beheading of infidels.
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Re: Muslims face extra checks in new travel crackdown
Old 08-20-2006, 06:47 AM   #30
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Re: Muslims face extra checks in new travel crackdown

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Originally Posted by 3 Yrs to Go
I trust by this you mean the beheading of infidels.
That's what you need to understand about the left. Beheading Americans doesn't bother them, as long as it's Muslim's doing it, because obviously it is our fault somehow.

what really get's a liberal's panties in a bunch is when Mustaffa & Muhammed get held up by the TSA for 10 extra minutes on their way to NYC.



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Re: Muslims face extra checks in new travel crackdown
Old 08-20-2006, 09:14 AM   #31
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Re: Muslims face extra checks in new travel crackdown

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Originally Posted by saluki9
That's what you need to understand about the left. Beheading Americans doesn't bother them, as long as it's Muslim's doing it, because obviously it is our fault somehow.

what really get's a liberal's panties in a bunch is when Mustaffa & Muhammed get held up by the TSA for 10 extra minutes on their way to NYC.
Exxageration...another well known rhetorical device :
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Re: Muslims face extra checks in new travel crackdown
Old 08-20-2006, 09:22 AM   #32
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Re: Muslims face extra checks in new travel crackdown

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Originally Posted by razztazz
It's still a great f'ing country any way you slice it
F**k used as an adjective. Good job. This seems to be the second most common usage with number one being as a verb. This word is so versatile!
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Re: Muslims face extra checks in new travel crackdown
Old 08-20-2006, 09:32 AM   #33
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Re: Muslims face extra checks in new travel crackdown

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Originally Posted by astromeria
Exxageration...another well known rhetorical device* :
I wish it were exaggeration. Wouldn't it depend on the liberals you're talking about? Clearly, some actually feel this way and the statement, in reference to them, would be accurate. Of course, extreme conservtives overstate in the same way. It's what we've evolved to I guess.
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Re: Muslims face extra checks in new travel crackdown
Old 08-20-2006, 09:35 AM   #34
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Re: Muslims face extra checks in new travel crackdown

Political extremists really don't have much worthwhile to say. Maybe this is why they rely so much on rhetorical flimflam.
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