My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...

[charlie]

True Christians believe that faith in Jesus is what gets us to
heaven ..... it is not all about what we do. Most of us are really
interested in passing the spark on to others out of love and concern.

As for me, I am very careful to only talk to those I sense are
seeking something outside themselves and I would never push
my views on someone who is not ready.

I respect all religions that teach their followers to be decent
human beings and I will let God sort out those who go to heaven.

Cheers,

Charlie

 

[Mr._johngalt]

True Christians believe that faith in Jesus is what gets us to
heaven ..... it is not all about what we do.   Most of us are really
interested in passing the spark on to others out of love and concern.

As for me, I am very careful to only talk to those I sense are
seeking something outside themselves and I would never push
my views on someone who is not ready.   

I respect all religions that teach their followers to be decent
human beings and I will let God sort out those who go to heaven.

Cheers,

Charlie

I just watched a movie that put forth the idea that God might be just
like a kid with an ant farm. Could be.

JG

 

[moghopper]

I respect all religions that teach their followers to be decent
human beings and I will let God sort out those who go to heaven.

There is only one God and He is God to all;
therefore it is important that everyone is seen as equal before God.
I've always said we should help a Hindu become a better Hindu,
a Muslim become a better Muslim,
a Catholic become a better Catholic. Mother Teresa

 

[charlie]

JG, every hair on you head is numbered ..... that is if you have any
left.

Cheers,

Charlie

 

[bosco]

I'm with Einstein--quantum events are not random, even though all the evidence appears to point in that direction at this time. <snip>

But I believe that if done 'well' (correctly) a unified field theory would also establish first cause (plus refute Hume)
--Greg

Greg, you truly appear to be a man of faith. I don't think that is a bad thing.

I can't claim to understand all the nuances of modern theoretical physics. I'd like to think that I could if I had the time to spend pursuing it. But that appears to be an article of faith on my part.

I find the notion of determinism emotionally repugnant, and therefore reject it. Let the nuclei decay in true random fashion!!! If they happen to hit a neuron or two in my brain, then none of us knows what I might do next. Hmmm....maybe I'm not that different from anyone else....my belief system seems to be based on my emotional disposition, as you have just admitted that yours is and as seems to be the case of most of the posters in this thread. The difference is that we both admit this, rather than looking to an abstract super-authority to bolster our all-too-human human.

"sometimes God, you just don't come through. Do you need a woman to look after you?" --Tori Amos

 

[bosco]

to bolster our all-too-human human.

I meant all-too-human opinions. Guess I'm not perfect yet. nuts.

 

[Mr._johngalt]

Greg, you truly appear to be a man of faith.  I don't think that is a bad thing.

I can't claim to understand all the nuances of modern theoretical physics.  I'd like to think that I could if I had the time to spend pursuing it.  But that appears to be an article of faith on my part.

I find the notion of determinism emotionally repugnant, and therefore reject it.  Let the nuclei decay in true random fashion!!!  If they happen to hit a neuron or two in my brain, then none of us knows what I might do next.  Hmmm....maybe I'm not that different from anyone else....my belief system seems to be based on my emotional disposition, as you have just admitted that yours is and as seems to be the case of most of the posters in this thread.  The difference is that we both admit this, rather than looking to an abstract super-authority to bolster our all-too-human human.

"sometimes God, you just don't come through.  Do you need a woman to look after you?"   --Tori Amos

If there is a God, he must be quite fond of irony.

JG

 

[Mr._johngalt]

JG, every hair on you head is numbered ..... that is if you have any
left.   

Cheers,

Charlie

Well, if DW ever gets around to taking my pic posting so I can send it in,
y'all can judge for yourselves

JG

 

[greg]

If there is a God, he must be quite fond of irony.

JG

No you're wrong again JG. IMO, God is not necessarily fond of irony; he/she is fond of well thought out solutions and correctly executed activities (these are the things that bring us, humans, real cognitive happiness). Humans are often fond of irony due to their ignorance of solutions. In fact, we create our own conundrums (see Bush).

At the same time it amuses me to no end that while everyone worries about how to find God in their religions, scientists are busily approaching the threshold of heaven in their study of quantum mechanics, field theories, and their unification. IMO.

I have a similar problem in the financial world: While I'm busily worrying about where the housing bubble axe will fall, the rising oil prices may be the instagating event. I keep looking for solutions inside and outside the conundrums. Information overload.

--Greg

 

[greg]

I find the notion of determinism emotionally repugnant, and therefore reject it. Let the nuclei decay in true random fashion!!!

Ahh, yes! It always boils down to that important phrase "It depends on what the meaning of is is."

--Greg

 

[REWahoo]

Ahh, yes! It always boils down to that important phrase "It depends on what the meaning of is is."

--Greg

As he craftily began morphing the thread from one endless, unresolvable subject to another....

How 'bout dem kayaks?

REW

 

[unclemick]

Well - I look at it this way: I didn't know what a koan was until coming to this forum.

"What is the sound of one hand clapping."

OR - more importantly - I once again came the long way home from the dougnut shop - why are there so many pirogues and a few canoes in the bayou's fishing - BUT not one kayak in sight

Why? why? why?

 

[Mr._johngalt]

No you're wrong again JG.   IMO, God is not necessarily fond of irony; he/she is fond of well thought out solutions and correctly executed activities (these are the things that bring us, humans, real cognitive happiness).  Humans are often fond of irony due to their ignorance of solutions.  In fact, we create our own conundrums (see Bush).

At the same time it amuses me to no end that while everyone worries about how to find God in their religions, scientists are busily approaching the threshold of heaven in their study of quantum mechanics, field theories, and their unification.  IMO.

I have a similar problem in the financial world:  While I'm busily worrying about where the housing bubble axe will fall, the rising oil prices may be the instagating event. I keep looking for solutions inside and outside the conundrums.   Information overload.

--Greg

"Wrong again" ? When was the first time?

Re. "information overload"; agree completely. I just ignore most of it.

JG

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

Unclemick2,

Ever try to haul in a crawfish trap from a kayak? An where ya gonna put it if ya do? Dem pirogues got da flat bottom fer a reason. Got room fer couple Jax in da bottom, too.

How about a feminist koan:

If a man says something in the forest and no one hears him, does it still mean that he is wrong?

Cheers,

E_T_G

 

[greg]

As he craftily began morphing the thread from one endless, unresolvable subject to another....



REW

No, this is the usual point where the DW's eyes start to glaze over. I can actually prattle on until I . . . um . . . drop dead. The DW listens because sometimes she likes me. So . . . anybody interested in a dose serving of free will?

--Greg

 

[greg]

REW--Hey, I got you to the threshold and w/o requiring you to believe in God. What does 'unresolvable' mean?

--Greg

 

[wabmester]

I find the notion of determinism emotionally repugnant, and therefore reject it.

Huh?   Do you also find that roller coasters are boring because you know they ride on a track?    Sufficient complexity is indistinguishable from free will.   I don't believe that quantum effects have any bearing on human behavior.   We are completely deterministic meat machines, but the complexity of 100 billion non-linear neurons interacting with an equally complex environment is a fine illusion.   Good enough for me!

Now, if somebody would just write a few good hymns about the fun of complexity, self-organization, and cool emergent properties of relatively simple physical systems, then I'd start going to church.

 

[REWahoo]

REW--Hey, I got you to the threshold and w/o requiring you to believe in God. What does 'unresolvable' mean?

--Greg

My definition of 'unresolvable' is determining the best color for a kayak......

REW

 

[greg]

......

REW

Ahhh yes. I see the glazed over eye.

--Greg

 

[greg]

My definition of 'unresolvable' is determining the best color for a kayak.

REW

Hot pink for boys. Jet Black with flaming decals for girls. These colors should make the user very uncomfortable, a good thing when going down rapids. :

--Greg

 

[REWahoo]

Hot pink for boys. Jet Black with flaming decals for girls. These colors should make the user very uncomfortable, a good thing when going down rapids. :

--Greg

My initial reaction was to respond with an indignant, "What right do you have to tell me what I should believe regarding kayak coloration!"

But you would only respond that you knew the nature of the true colors for kayaks since you were closely attuned to the threshold of heaven and the study of quantum mechanics, field theories, and their unification.

Then my eyes glazed over and I was suddenly overcome with a feeling of deep compassion for Martha...

REW

 

[greg]

Now, if somebody would just write a few good hymns about the fun of complexity, self-organization, and cool emergent properties of relatively simple physical systems, then I'd start going to church.

OK. I once read a paper on phase transitions, specifically about what happens to water as it makes the transition from water to ice. Basically as water approaches 32 degress, it suddenly phases, meaning it goes from one level of molecular organization to another slightly larger one, which allows it to float because the spaces between the molecules were now larger. This was interesting knowledge to me. I asked myself "self how did evolution or a bunch random quanta end up this way because if it would have happened the other way, ice sinking, then there is a good chance life on this planet never could have started?" Then I was walking outside in the woods one late fall near a pond. I heard a bunch of crackling and turned to see a thin skim ice forming across a large area of the pond. The experience was very pleasing.

I still figure something's up with this stuff. Do-da, do-da.

--Greg

 

[greg]

Then my eyes glazed over and I was suddenly overcome with a feeling of deep compassion for Martha...

REW

I agree, both of you are saints and have developed your free will enough to always choose the 'enlightening' path. Even if you are fleeing in kayaks. This has been fun for me. Thank you. Plus, it builds my message total.

--Greg

 

[REWahoo]

I still figure something's up with this stuff. Do-da, do-da.

--Greg

Think you're on the wrong thread. You need to contact unclemick who can advise you on this subject.

REW

 

[unclemick]

Hmmm

St Pat drove the snakes out of Erie. PBS covered sinners and Saints in New Orleans - including St Fragile and St Expedite (named after the boxes they arrived in ?).

It's after 7 CT - and the last waverider in sight looks headed in ( poor guys - public school started last Friday). The other Saints got stomped by Seattle 34 to 15 in preseason.

Soooo - let the waveriders/jetski's be benched - while Unclemick - goes forth to Kayak South Louisiana?

'What is the sound of a kayak wave riding.'

The new Kayak Messiah!!!!

P.S. - if this post means anything to you - you are in deep deep trouble.

heh, heh, heh, heh, heh - five.