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Re: My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...
Old 08-14-2005, 10:51 PM   #81
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Re: My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...

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Originally Posted by wabmester
More interesting to me is the spontaneous formation of lipid bilayers from simple phospholipids. And the spontaneous formation of little vesicles from those lipid bilayers. They make convenient little containers that could have held the guts of the first primordial cells.

AKAIK, nobody has actually witnessed bono fide abiogenesis yet, but somehow it's easier for me to make that leap of faith than the leap required to believe the story about the old man in the sky....
REW--
I've got an 'absolute zero' story to die for. Right now I think we're trapped in a cul-de-sac--at least I am. It's almost Monday; time for me to rest up for next Sunday. I'll be thinking about a church for you to attend too.

--Greg
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Re: My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...
Old 08-14-2005, 11:17 PM   #82
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Re: My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zipper

I think you are in Canada??
Split my time between Canada and Alaska. Have spent lots of time in both the US and Canada.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zipper

We do have our share of religious nuts up here, but like Europe we are becoming a much more secular society.
True, but there seems to be a level of civility and tolerance in Canada (except perhaps in parliament!) even among religious nuts that has been on a severe decline in the US. The Rush Limbaughs and their insecure shout-down-anyone-who-disagrees with them approach don't play well in Canada.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zipper

It scares "the living bejezus" out of me when I see Bush hawking the fundamentalist line. His endorsement of the "intelligent design" theory of life would have him laughed out of office in "The Great White North"!
George W. discussing "intelligent design" (gawd, he can barely pronounce it) would seem to lend credence to JG's theory that God loves irony .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zipper

I think religion is a kind of mental disease that is inflicted upon children before they are capable of rational thought. And the cycle continues.
I think of it more as a form of laziness. People don't want to take the time and trouble to examine their own deep-seated beliefs (it can be time-consuming and, yes, scary), so they subcontract the job out to a book, minister, cult, etc. Because they are, on some level insecure about this situation, they feel the need to "convert" others, perhaps (in their minds) upping the odds that they are right. (how's that for a cheap, pop-psychological explanation? )
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Re: My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...
Old 08-15-2005, 12:01 AM   #83
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Re: My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...

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Originally Posted by bosco
I think of it more as a form of laziness.* People don't want to take the time and trouble to examine their own deep-seated beliefs (it can be time-consuming and, yes, scary), so they subcontract the job out to a book, minister, cult, etc.* Because they are, on some level insecure about this situation, they feel the need to "convert" others, perhaps (in their minds) upping the odds that they are right. (how's that for a cheap, pop-psychological explanation?* )
Well, I think you're overestimating some people and underestimating others. Ignoring those who "inherited" their religion and those who are gullible fools, there are rational people of faith. I'm sure some of them post on this forum.

Everybody wants to understand their origin. Everybody needs a moral structure. A lot of people need a "purposeful" life. And some people want to believe that life is eternal.

Scientific Materialism is the rational man's religion, but it doesn't have much to say about the state of things before the Big Bang, about morals, about purpose, and it doesn't give any credence to the idea of an eternal soul. So, I can understand why some rational people look to religion, but I still think it's a bunch of baloney.
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Re: My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...
Old 08-15-2005, 12:48 AM   #84
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Re: My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...

Quote:
St Pat drove the snakes out of Erie.
No offense meant here, but unless you're talking about a mid-sized town in Pennsylvania, I think you mean "Eire."

(Me sainted muther would never forgive me for letting that one pass by uncorrected... ;-)

Caroline
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Re: My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...
Old 08-15-2005, 07:49 AM   #85
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Re: My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zipper
Keep it coming Bosco.

I think you are in Canada??

We do have our share of religious nuts up here, but like Europe we are becoming a much more secular society.

The Zippers are all proud atheists!

It scares "the living bejezus" out of me when I see Bush hawking the fundamentalist line. His endorsement of the "intelligent design" theory of life would have him laughed out of office in "The Great White North"!

I think religion is a kind of mental disease that is inflicted upon children before they are capable of rational thought. And the cycle continues.

Like, who in their right mind would expose their kids to summer bible camp??
Re. the "Zippers being proud atheists"...........man I just know there is
a terrific comeback in there, but I'm too impatient to ferret it out

I am an agnostic, but partly because is sounds less harsh than
atheist. That said, I am very happy that all my grandchildren are
being homeschooled and raised very conservative Christian.
Even if they don't outgrow the indoctrination maybe they will "vote right"
Seriously, I don't buy most of the dogma either, but I think you can do a lot worse than following Christian principles. I sent both daughters
to Christian supported colleges and even tried to get youngest into
an ultra conservative Christian college in Florida. She balked.
Anyway, I would guess I am that odd duck non-believer who
nevertheless wants Christian values instilled in his progeny.

JG
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Re: My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...
Old 08-15-2005, 08:05 AM   #86
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Re: My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apocalypse . . .um . . .SOON
Right now I think we're trapped in a cul-de-sac--at least I am.
Greg

I'll prey for you.

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Re: My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...
Old 08-15-2005, 08:07 AM   #87
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Re: My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caroline
No offense meant here, but unless you're talking about a mid-sized town in Pennsylvania, I think you mean "Eire."

(Me sainted muther would never forgive me for letting that one pass by uncorrected... ;-)

Caroline
Or he meant St. Urho driving the grasshoppers out of Finland.
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Re: My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...
Old 08-15-2005, 08:14 AM   #88
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Re: My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha
Or he meant St. Urho driving the grasshoppers out of Finland.
Or he meant Morgan Freeman driving Jessica Tandy (Miss Daisy) out of South Carolina.
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Re: My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...
Old 08-15-2005, 08:15 AM   #89
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Re: My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...

Quote:
Originally Posted by unclemick2
Hmmm

St Pat drove the snakes out of Erie. PBS covered sinners and Saints in New Orleans - including St Fragile and St Expedite (named after the boxes they arrived in ?).

It's after 7 CT - and the last waverider in sight looks headed in ( poor guys - public school started last Friday). The other Saints got stomped by Seattle 34 to 15 in preseason.

Soooo - let the waveriders/jetski's be benched - while Unclemick - goes forth to Kayak South Louisiana?

'What is the sound of a kayak wave riding.'

The new Kayak Messiah!!!!

P.S. - if this post means anything to you - you are in deep deep trouble.

heh, heh, heh, heh, heh - five.

I speak fluent "unclemick". *I understand every word and nuance. *

JG
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Re: My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...
Old 08-15-2005, 08:31 AM   #90
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Re: My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...

Eire - sorry for the spelling.

Any wise - the SO measures everything - the way we did it in PA. I drawn the line at scrapple and Lebanon baloney though.

St Pat might have done good in Erie. As for St Urho - only half the family understands that one.

She claims to be more Welsh than Irish anyway - so hopefully - I have some slack on letter transposition.

1. There is a God

2. I am not him.

HOWEVER! - if I have a kayak vision.

Well Lay down the 'lifecycle of the human turd research' - and go forth to preach 'kayak gospel.'

One cup of coffee wisdom.
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Re: My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...
Old 08-15-2005, 08:41 AM   #91
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Re: My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...

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Originally Posted by MRGALT2U
I speak fluent "unclemick". I understand every word and nuance.

JG
JG--The scary part for me is that I now think there might be three of us. I don't understand what Uncle Mick said, but I do think there ARE connections between the seeming randomness of his statements. But my thinking is "faith based," not neccesarily 'ego based."

Question for REW (for Sunday--not a weekday): Where is this randomness or chaos? I don't see any--anywhere! To quote an old Minnesotan: "Where's the beef?"

--Greg
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Re: My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...
Old 08-15-2005, 09:09 AM   #92
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Re: My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...

The color of kayaks has already been pre-determined; if even the lowly sparrows...

Totally agree that gawd must be enjoying the irony!!
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Re: My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...
Old 08-15-2005, 09:21 AM   #93
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Re: My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...

Quote without comment:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apocalypse . . .um . . .SOON
Where is this randomness or chaos? I don't see any--anywhere! --Greg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha
On the windward side of lake superior, we have had several 11 foot years, one of which caused our garage roof to fall in from snow weight.
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Re: My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...
Old 08-15-2005, 09:45 AM   #94
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Re: My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...

Quote:
Originally Posted by wabmester
Well, I think you're overestimating some people and underestimating others. Ignoring those who "inherited" their religion and those who are gullible fools, there are rational people of faith. I'm sure some of them post on this forum.
agreed, there are rational people of faith. There are also raving fanatics. To me, however, one definition of rational is anyone who can at least consider the notion that someone else might be right
and you might be wrong. That quality seems to be totally lacking in many of the fundamentalists. An actual discussion is not possible with such a person.

So why bother to try to have one, then? Good question. Boredom, maybe..... When I was a tortured kid, I'd form a "commando squad" of 10 red ants and put them on a black anthill. Maybe I haven't outgrown that yet


Quote:
Originally Posted by wabmester
Scientific Materialism is the rational man's religion, but it doesn't have much to say about the state of things before the Big Bang, about morals, about purpose, and it doesn't give any credence to the idea of an eternal soul. So, I can understand why some rational people look to religion, but I still think it's a bunch of baloney.
I don't see scientific materialism as a religion precisely because the typical areas that religion purports to "explain" are outside the scope and domain of S.M. Note that S.M., strictly, doesn't debunk morals, souls, etc. It may draw conclusions within its domain that offend some religions (e.g. theory of evolution), but nevertheless is, or at least should be, very careful with its universe of discourse.

It seems to me that it is perfectly possible to believe S.M. and some religions because they don't really overlap domains. What is problematical, however, is when people try to use religion as some sort of basis to set school curriculum for science.
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Re: My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...
Old 08-15-2005, 12:00 PM   #95
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Re: My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...

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Originally Posted by REWahoo!
Quote without comment:
I see a theory/rationale/intelligence/orderliness/non-chaos that has been identified and verified by many scientists (and is a common experience within the known and unknown universe) that explains this perception of chaos or randomness: Gravity Try again? Or am I wrong?
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Re: My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...
Old 08-15-2005, 12:40 PM   #96
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Re: My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...

Well at least saying gravity was the cause of our roof collapse is better than saying we deserved it.
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Re: My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...
Old 08-15-2005, 02:04 PM   #97
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Re: My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...

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Well at least saying gravity was the cause of our roof collapse is better than saying we deserved it.
I thought about it. But decided I didn't want to touch that 'bad Karma' thingy with a ten foot pole. You think that fair tax stuff raises a stink, boy: Go directly to the septic system. Do not pass Go. Do not collect anything. Bad juju, bad.

--DH
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Re: My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...
Old 08-15-2005, 02:20 PM   #98
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Re: My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apocalypse . . .um . . .SOON
Or am I wrong?
Of course you are. Just ask Martha.

REW
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Re: My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...
Old 08-15-2005, 02:57 PM   #99
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Re: My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...

Faith is a personal matter, and when you tell some one who has relied on their faith to get them through bad times and personal struggles, you on invite pain, whether it be their hurt feelings or your broken nose.

Many of our greatest scientific minds, including Newton and Einstein, were (partly) driven to their discoveries by the absolute faith in a higher power. Some of our greatest scientific minds have also been silenced by those with religious power who felt their faith was threatened by these discoveries (Galileo comes to mind). Faith can lead to great things, but abuse of religion to further worldly ends can be among the greatest evils.

Everybody knows I'm a Christian, but I also feel faith and science are not in conflict. Some one already said here religion is often used to explain the unexplainable, and I agree. As science has marched on, less and less have we relied on religious myth to explain worldly events (why it rains, where the sun goes etc.) and used faith more and more to enable personal growth, a far more appropriate realm IMHO. Perhaps science will be able to explain away everything at some point, and then I would be wrong to have held onto my faith. Personally, I know I have benefited from my faith, and that's enough for me.

Someone told me there is only one truth; we just all see it imperfectly. I like that thought.
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Re: My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...
Old 08-15-2005, 06:45 PM   #100
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Re: My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apocalypse . . .um . . .SOON
You think that fair tax stuff raises a stink...
It's interesting to note that this thread has only made it to seven pages while the fair tax thread is at 11 and rising quickly...
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