My new financial advisors. Eat your heart out!!!

[mickeyd]

http://tinyurl.com/kqbkl



EDIT: Shortened URL

[gtmeouttahere]

Amy Sue Cooper can adivise me on anything she wants...even finances

Amy did really well with her portfolio this year but one intrigued me yet again.* She said this

Pacific Ethanol (PEIX). When it comes down to it, I am a tree hugger. We all have to live and breathe in this world why not and make it a better place to live. Recently Bill Gates has invested in this company, hopefully because he is a tree hugger as well. I am hoping that the trend will be to move towards better fuel-efficient cars and this company will benefit from that trend.

I've been thinking about investing in this since I was back in farm country and saw Ethonol being used at the pumps a few years back.

Anyone have any thoughts on this as an investment?* If Bill Gates is doing it, why are we all not doing it?* (I've done a little more research than that, don't worry)

It has gone from $10-$30 a share since Jan 01 2006 according to her portfolio info. Ford has also starting to market many vehicles to run on E-85 in the Midwest.

I kinda have my own opinions on this, just wanted to hear your feedback on this before I take the plunge and invest.

I value everyones opinion on this board so...Don't be shy.*

[mathjak107]

as her banker id like to get her alone...oops i mean a loan

[MJ]

Originally Posted by gtmeouttahere

Amy Sue Cooper can adivise me on anything she wants...even finances

Not my type, she's just too cerebral.

[mickeyd]

I can't decide if Amy or Linsey is in more need of my financial advice. Both of them seem to need a lot of support and I'm the guy to chip in and contribute my skills.

[soupcxan]

Ethanol in the US is a pipe dream, propped up by large subsidies to corn farmers. It would never be economically viable without these subsidies...not to mention the fact that more energy is used up in the production of a gallon of ethanol than it contains, so overall you haven't solved any energy problems. Do some research and you'll see that ethanol doesn't make logical sense, but it's a good buzzword for politicians.

Sugar cane based ethanol in Brazil is much different story, but that has taken +20 years and almost failed several times as well. Biodiesel might also be interesting here, but I tend to doubt that it can scale to meet our population's needs.

[mickeyd]

Ethanol?

Are you sure that you have the right thread Soup?

[Danny]

Ethanol may not be the best economical viable fuel - but the money is staying in country - thats a good thing isn't it?

Edit:

I forgot about the huge subsidies we taxpayers pay for our oil - there is the oil depletion allowance we give oil companies, but most of all
there is the huge defense costs we must bare to keep the oil flowing from the Mid-east and elsewhere.

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

I can't disagree with anything soup said.

I am a chemical engineer who has been asked several time to design ethanol plants. A buddy was in that business for a while. It brought him to tears.

On an industrial scale, ethanol requires subsidies to be a competitive fuel. Nothing wrong with subsidies, but it is a high-wire act for an investor.

DanTien, you got it!

Biodiesel makes waste products that will put some producers in jail some day. Ethanol is much more eco-friendly to make.

Just buy the gasoline. Or find another way to get to work. (I work for Big Oil--and I walk to work.)

El Gitano

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Ethanol has two major problems. One is that it takes a shitload of corn to make it, and the other IIRC is that it attracts water like crazy and its hard to separate at the station/pump.

I heard someone say that we'd have to plant every square inch of north america in corn to get enough to replace gasoline completely. Probably not correct, but I wouldnt be surprised.

Apparently the shipping/water thing is the biggest problem a lot of distributors are facing right now.

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

I heard someone say that we'd have to plant every square inch of north america in corn to get enough to replace gasoline completely.

TH,

Wait until you find out how much real estate it would take to have a hydrogen economy based on photo-voltaic cells electrolyzing water!

Gypsy

[sgeeeee]

I'm not sure these criticisms of ethanol fuel are really that meaningful.

Ever stop to calculate how many millions of acres of ferns and pounds of dinosaur flesh over how many millions of years it takes to produce a gallon of gas?

Want to talk subsidies? The most expensive part of nuclear power is dealing with the waste for the next 10,000 years. Guess what -- The waste is handled and paid for by the federal government.

Distribution problems are bound to exist with any emerging energy source. The only reason we've solved those related to gas and oil is because there has been so much money in it for so many decades.

I have no idea whether ethanol can offer potential future solutions, but it is never completely legitimate to compare mature, well-developed technologies with emerging technologies.

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Originally Posted by Ed_The_Gypsy

TH,

Wait until you find out how much real estate it would take to have a hydrogen economy based on photo-voltaic cells electrolyzing water!

Gypsy

Yeah, they had some droid on CNBC last week showing a prius retrofitted with a hydrogen tank and fuel cell, the 'hydrogen gas pump' and how easy it was to pump, in fact it looked just like a regular gas pump! I kept muttering "Now tell us where the hydrogen is coming from and how much it costs". Not a peep. Just made it sound like this was a slam dunk solution to the gas problem...all we need is a little retrofitting and show people how to lock a hydrogen nozzle in place instead of pull a trigger...

[eridanus]

Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny

I heard someone say that we'd have to plant every square inch of north america in corn to get enough to replace gasoline completely. Probably not correct, but I wouldnt be surprised.

That claim was in a recent MSNBC article. Ethanol production is very controversial:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12934470/
http://egov.oregon.gov/ENERGY/RENEW/Biomass/forum.shtml

Ultimately, we either need fewer people or we need to seriously curtail our energy use. Those solutions are too taboo to discuss however.