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Old 04-30-2010, 09:16 AM   #241
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We've seen your smile....

Not lately...
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Old 05-03-2010, 07:19 PM   #242
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I still have that tune in my head. Just found a rendition by Bon Jovi. I do not listen to hard rock, but had heard of this band. I like this when turned on loud (with a headphone of course).

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Old 05-03-2010, 11:25 PM   #243
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Fuego, you're going to update us on this, right?
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Old 05-04-2010, 09:22 AM   #244
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Fuego, you're going to update us on this, right?
As long as my knees remain intact I will update.

So far I think SIL is gambling free. DW is going to do some recon tonight to ascertain the whereabouts of SIL this past weekend. We received a phone call from her early (ie before 10 am) on Sunday, and DW's comments were "well she didn't sound groggy and she wanted to get together for lunch at mom's house, so she must not have been coming down from an all night gambling bender and she wasn't planning on going out gambling Sunday."

So far so good. We have not lent any money yet, but may consider doing so before her next vig payment is due in about a month.

Our HELOC closing is this afternoon. We got really great terms from Penfed, so I'm happy we obtained the HELOC regardless of whether we end up tapping it for SIL's benefit. It is large enough to basically pay for all our living expenses for 14 months or so, which just adds another layer to our financial security. Although one of the terms of the loan is that I cannot take any action that would cause me to be incarcerated, so I'll have to tone it down a bit from here on out.
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Old 05-04-2010, 12:03 PM   #245
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Although one of the terms of the loan is that I cannot take any action that would cause me to be incarcerated, so I'll have to tone it down a bit from here on out.
Gotta be a great lawyer/engineer punchline in there somewhere...
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Old 05-04-2010, 12:16 PM   #246
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Gotta be a great lawyer/engineer punchline in there somewhere...
I have heard the word "lawyer" and the word "punch" used in the same sentence more than once.
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Old 05-04-2010, 04:40 PM   #247
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As long as my knees remain intact I will update.
You post using your fingers or your knees
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Old 05-09-2010, 10:05 AM   #248
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Mini-update:

Today we are headed to a birthday party at gambler SIL's house. Should be interesting. Maybe non-eventful, maybe drama filled.

I talked to SIL's husband yesterday for a while, and he is still leary that SIL is not committed to stopping the gambling. His quote "Be careful and watch your money. It isn't easy to earn more of it these days".

SIL's youngest son spent the weekend at our house till last night. I encouraged him to eat heartily. Not much info out of SIL's son, but he did say something about "we don't have any toilet paper at our house".

As far as I know, SIL has not been out to the gambling parties since the "intervention". All knees intact on everyone.
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Old 05-09-2010, 10:19 AM   #249
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Mini-update:

Today we are headed to a birthday party at gambler SIL's house. Should be interesting. Maybe non-eventful, maybe drama filled.
Why? She's not going to say, "Yesterday when I told everyone I was at the mall, I was really out gambling with the toilet paper money."

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Originally Posted by FUEGO
I talked to SIL's husband yesterday for a while, and he is still leary that SIL is not committed to stopping the gambling. His quote "Be careful and watch your money. It isn't easy to earn more of it these days".
That's good advice.

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As far as I know, SIL has not been out to the gambling parties since the "intervention". All knees intact on everyone.
As far as I know, the moon really IS made of green cheese.
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Old 05-09-2010, 10:26 AM   #250
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Why? She's not going to say, "Yesterday when I told everyone I was at the mall, I was really out gambling with the toilet paper money."

As far as I know, the moon really IS made of green cheese.
Let's just say if she is still going out and gambling, she's not playing for more than 20 minutes at a time. No more 30-40 hour benders where she won't show up at home all weekend.

Word gets out. People in the community talk and you can't keep a secret. Everyone knows everyone.

I wouldn't say there is a 100% certainty she has not been gambling, but probably 98%. It would take some serious 007 skills for her gambling to remain unnoticed.
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Old 05-09-2010, 10:31 AM   #251
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Oh, OK. Most gamblers around here do at least SOME online gambling, but I guess she doesn't have a computer (hopefully she sold it to pay back her debt).

And then, here many things are legal that probably aren't in your state (such as video poker, horses, casinos, the lottery). Gambling here doesn't take much time at all.
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Old 05-09-2010, 10:35 AM   #252
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Oh, OK. Most gamblers around here do at least SOME online gambling, but I guess she doesn't have a computer (hopefully she sold it to pay back her debt).
They don't have internet and she is not computer literate. She may be buying thousands of lottery tickets for all I know though. But the way she got into five figure debts at private card games is almost certainly not happening right now.
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Old 05-09-2010, 08:12 PM   #253
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But the way she got into five figure debts at private card games is almost certainly not happening right now.
Wow what an ironic post and I'm tasting a little of my foot in my mouth right now. SIL wasn't actually gambling as I typed that post, but she was coming home from an all night gambling bender just a few hours before that post. I just hadn't found out about the gambling yet!

I had no clue of the overnight gambling during the birthday party today, but SIL's husband called DW and me after the party was over to fill us in. SIL was apparently eavesdropping on her husband and I during the party today to see what he would say to me. The husband's call to us tonight set into motion a whole chain of events (to be described in subsequent posts as time allows).

The upside is that everyone in the family is DONE giving her the benefit of the doubt and DONE giving her any money. We have offered the husband and their three kids a place to stay and food to eat if it comes to that.

I guess the group consensus here was right on this one. She is a gambling addict and cannot change overnight.

I think I handled this in the best way possible for myself and DW. I am so glad I took the "wait and see" approach to this. I had a deep down gut feeling that she wasn't done gambling yet when I talked to her on the Sunday after the Intervention. DW and I are 100% in agreement on this, and the rest of the family now knows what SIL is capable of and how to treat her. The trust there is gone. I think everyone is ready for the tough love approach and willing to let SIL hit rock bottom.
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Old 05-09-2010, 08:27 PM   #254
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You are right, Fuego. I am truly sorry that you are having to go through this, though.

Your decision that you are done giving her money is sensible and really you have no choice. You are doing the right thing by thinking of your immediate family first, including the future of your sweet, adorable little daughter who was in your photo in that other thread.
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Old 05-09-2010, 09:44 PM   #255
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Damn. I was really hoping for a better outcome. I'm so sorry Fuego. I second W2R's thoughts.
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Old 05-09-2010, 10:07 PM   #256
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I guess the group consensus here was right on this one. She is a gambling addict and cannot change overnight.
I know everyone was hoping it wasn't so but it the information you provided made it pretty clear to the vast majority who responded that this was the case. Very glad you took the position you did and weren't sucked into giving her money to feed her habit. Your family has a real battle ahead. All the best in your efforts to provide support to her husband and kids.
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Old 05-09-2010, 11:35 PM   #257
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Glad you saw her true colors BEFORE you tapped into that HELOC for her benefit.

Hope she will learn a lesson and get some help before her whole life goes down the toilet...

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Old 05-10-2010, 07:01 AM   #258
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I'm so so sorry to read this. The intervention helped identify the problem to everyone in her family and made the extent of it public to them (although she could be even deeper in debt than she let on).

Going back on her promise must be so painful to everyone but now you know who needs your help (her husband and children) and who doesn't (her).
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Old 05-10-2010, 07:15 AM   #259
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You are on the right course now (for SIL as well as yourself). While many of us thought it was crazy your earlier willingness to take a wait and see approach will certainly help maintain your own relationship with your wife and her family. You did everything you reasonably could and, in fact, went well above and beyond.
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Old 05-10-2010, 09:30 AM   #260
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I had no clue of the overnight gambling during the birthday party today, but SIL's husband called DW and me after the party was over to fill us in. SIL was apparently eavesdropping on her husband and I during the party today to see what he would say to me. The husband's call to us tonight set into motion a whole chain of events (to be described in subsequent posts as time allows).
When SIL's husband called yesterday, he also let us know that SIL was currently out gambling (yesterday evening). We decided to call her on the pretext that our daughter just wanted to chit chat with her. No answer on her cell (busy gambling). My DW is pissed. DW calls her (and SIL's) mom, informs her that SIL is out gambling again as they were speaking and was also out all night Saturday until around 9:00 AM Sunday.

DW's dad hears this telephone conversation about the continued gambling and decides to go to the party house and tell SIL (his daughter) to stop gambling and go home. SIL complies and they both peacefully leave (from what I hear).

SIL goes home to her husband and yelling/disagreements ensue. SIL says she has lost another $2000 (which probably means $3000-4000 and this is on top of whatever she lost Sat night and into Sun morning). SIL tells her husband that they really really really need to refinance their house and suck out all the equity (they wouldn't qualify for a refi loan anyway so it is a moot point). Husband tells her to calm down, sleep on it and they can discuss it this morning.

My DW's mom (my MIL) feels betrayed in this. Her eldest daughter, formerly "the responsible one" that has helped take care of the parents, is now a gambling addict and causing serious problems in her household and others. Now MIL may be out her $12000 (~1/2 her life savings). MIL calls SIL and gives her a piece of her mind. MIL reminds SIL of how they came to America when SIL was still a young child, and how they didn't have a penny to their name. Through decades of hard work and saving a little bit here and there, they managed to buy a house (and almost pay off the whole mortgage now) and save a little bit of money. MIL told SIL that they were able to accomplish this without ever winning any money at the gambling tables. And now SIL is wasting away all of her family's money and MIL's money trying to win big at the tables (well, they technically play on the floor).

Keep in mind this is all happening on mother's day.

SIL's husband had also informed us that SIL went crazy Saturday morning and accused husband of going behind her back and telling people about her gambling and conspiring against her efforts to acquire more money by borrowing from relatives (DW and I and SIL's mom). Husband basically said "yes, what do you want me to do, lie for you and lie to your mother when she asks about what you are doing? I am not doing that". SIL's response when confronted with the challenge that she has broken a promise to her mother to stop gambling: "I don't care, she is my mother what is she going to do to me". Wow.

Apparently while SIL was out at the gambling party Sunday night, all her fellow gamblers were encouraging her to continue gambling and applying the peer pressure pretty thick. Even though she had just lost many thousands of dollars, her fellow gamblers kept telling her "oh that is nothing. We all can lose $10,000-$20,000 and it is nothing. Don't let it bother you." Wow again.

I don't think there is a whole lot left to do at this point. SIL has apparently decided that gambling is her thing and she's sticking to it ("how's that working out for ya?"). I have told her husband to keep his income to himself for now, and if he wants to keep the house, keep paying the mortgage. And put food on the table. But don't give SIL any money because it will go to gambling. Set up a separate bank account and keep your money in there (or hidden). He knows this all may not end well for his marriage, but he doesn't have a lot left to lose at this point.

Everyone in the family has come to the conclusion that SIL will have to hit rock bottom on her own. Unfortunately for MIL, she has probably lost $12000. But we all know SIL is untrustworthy and literally willing to betray her own mother to get a buck to keep gambling. But we all had to come to this conclusion in our own ways. It is just a matter of time, and a matter of luck, until SIL hits bottom. She has exhausted all of her sources of credit from family, and soon her 10% monthly interest payments will not be serviced, and then she will have exhausted her credit lines from her fellow gamblers as her credit rating with them drops off the cliff.

The only other thing I plan to do is talk to the oldest of SIL's sons at some point. He has 3 years of HS left. He has already kind of figured out that he has to help out around the house because his mother doesn't do a lot anymore. But he needs to know there probably won't be much money there to help him through college (if he chooses that path), and that getting a car and auto insurance as soon as he turns 16 may not be a reality. And that he shouldn't pressure his father too much to spend a lot on a car for him. He has already started talking about getting a summer job for his own spending money. Unfortunately he is going to have to become a man sooner rather than later.
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