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NW-Bound · 05-14-2010, 11:02 AM

This may be the sad ending that I fear when you just broke the story. Her husband is the one who is most cognizant of the situation. Your SIL must be grabbed and shaken by the throat before she gets awaken from this stupidity of hers. No, I do not mean literally, but by true destituteness and hardship. Until she breaks down and sobs about what she has done to her family, her children, and has some sense of guilt, she would continue to gamble.

She may have the gambling trait inborn in her, but hanging out with the wrong crowd was what did her in. Social gambling for fun indeed.

This reminds me of a movie, "Bad Company", that would be a good one to show to children as a lesson.

W2R · 05-14-2010, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUEGO

I tried to be there and listen, but I'm not about to tell him to end his marriage. If he decides to do it, it will have to be his own decision. But I will be there to listen to him, and help from the legal and analytical/financial side to figure out how he can come out of this in the best shape.

Very smart approach, FUEGO, especially in this situation.

Besides, if he gets divorced, I fear that the courts might give his wife custody of the kids and that might not be the best life for them. I am speculating that he may be thinking of that too, and that might be why he is doing nothing about it right now. He may want to wait and stay with them until they are a little older.

Westernskies · 05-14-2010, 11:12 AM

Fuego,

Tough situation, as the de-facto stabilizing influence in the whole mess, you are going to find yourself in a no-win situation. Everyone is looking to you for advice, a shoulder to cry on, and a helping hand. It's difficult to disengage, especially with your DW in the mix and nieces and nephews welfare at stake. Any advice or agreement you offer to one side will be received critically by the other. Keep your relationship with DW first and foremost in this- the SIL/BIL implosion is going to cause collateral damage in the family, and you want to be as far away from ground zero as you can while still being seen as supportive, firm, and fair to everyone. Unfortunately, it will probably get a lot worse before it gets any better- SIL is getting closer to nothing left to lose; her downward spiral is intensifying as she circles the drain, and BIL is now openly coming to grips with the inevitable.. Again, good luck with this one; it's a sad yet fascinating saga, one of the best threads we have ever had, unfortunately I see another 300-400 posts before this even starts to settlle out.

FUEGO · 05-14-2010, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W2R

Besides, if he gets divorced, I fear that the courts might give his wife custody of the kids and that might not be the best life for them. I am speculating that he may be thinking of that too, and that might be why he is doing nothing about it right now. He may want to wait and stay with them until they are a little older.

I'm sure that he fears he might lose the kids and they would be in even worse shape than now. But he says he thinks he would get custody of the kids. I would put his odds at maybe 60-70%, since we don't have a legal presumption that the mother gets custody in this state. And the mother in this case is involved with some financially and emotionally damaging stuff, plus it is technically illegal and she could expose the kids to dangerous people.

FUEGO · 05-14-2010, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Westernskies

Tough situation, as the de-facto stabilizing influence in the whole mess, you are going to find yourself in a no-win situation. Everyone is looking to you for advice, a shoulder to cry on, and a helping hand. It's difficult to disengage, especially with your DW in the mix and nieces and nephews welfare at stake. Any advice or agreement you offer to one side will be received critically by the other. Keep your relationship with DW first and foremost in this- the SIL/BIL implosion is going to cause collateral damage in the family, and you want to be as far away from ground zero as you can while still being seen as supportive, firm, and fair to everyone.

Luckily my DW is now firmly on my side and is really just disappointed that her sister is acting like this and doing this to her family. I guess my DW needs to be prepared for the situation to get ugly before it gets better, and to explain this to her mom, so her mom won't buckle under emotional pressure later.

Quote:

Unfortunately, it will probably get a lot worse before it gets any better- SIL is getting closer to nothing left to lose; her downward spiral is intensifying as she circles the drain, and BIL is now openly coming to grips with the inevitable.. Again, good luck with this one; it's a sad yet fascinating saga, one of the best threads we have ever had, unfortunately I see another 300-400 posts before this even starts to settlle out.

Yes, the next 10% vig payments are due in a few weeks. Paying that plus just her credit card minimum monthly payments will require roughly her whole monthly paycheck. And that is without any kind of significant principal reduction on either debt.

Doesn't leave any money to pay all the other monthly bills, or put food on the table. Or blow thousands every weekend gambling.

At some point, the power will be shut off, the phone will be shut off. The gas will be shut off. The water will be shut off. She will get hungry. If the phone is still connected, the debt collectors will keep calling. At some point when the utilities start getting shut off, the husband will probably take his kids and move in with us or SIL's mother for a while (completely up in the air and pure speculation as to where). But maybe SIL can still maintain her status as a high roller gambler every weekend if that continues to be her top priority.

Glad you guys are "enjoying" the read here.

It is fairly cathartic to get the story out to wise folks like yourselves in a fairly anonymous manner (as anonymous as the internet can ever be). And I think I have learned as much here and gotten as much tough love and support as weekly GamAnon meetings would have given me.

tryan · 05-14-2010, 11:41 AM

Have you thought about showing SIL this thread ?

17 pages (n'counting) ... might be just the "slap in the face" she needs.

FUEGO · 05-14-2010, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tryan

Have you thought about showing SIL this thread ?

17 pages (n'counting) ... might be just the "slap in the face" she needs.

I doubt she would get half way through my first post before refusing to read the rest. If I thought it would help her, I would.

Bimmerbill · 05-14-2010, 12:54 PM

Make sure your BIL is documenting the issues with SIL, keeping a journal or something. That should help if they get divorced and he is trying to keep the kids safe.

Recommend he open new bank accounts in his name only too.

JohnDoe · 05-14-2010, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tryan

Have you thought about showing SIL this thread ?

17 pages (n'counting) ... might be just the "slap in the face" she needs.

She couldn't care less about this thread. I am thinking the wake up call will be jail, down the road.

jayc · 05-14-2010, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUEGO

Yes, the next 10% vig payments are due in a few weeks. Paying that plus just her credit card minimum monthly payments will require roughly her whole monthly paycheck. And that is without any kind of significant principal reduction on either debt.

I am sorry to hear about this and cannot stop thinking about the kids. I hope the rest of the family pitches in and makes sure they have support and the basics.

Why would you make this payment now. This debt is between the people at the poker table. You mentioned possible cheating in these games and the gamblers took on the risk of loaning the money. I think this is the best and fastest way to bring this thing to a climax. (SIL hitting bottom).
They made the loan, they take the risk. Why is your family more concerned with making cheating low-life gamblers whole than their Matriarch of the family(MIL).
If family had done this when the debt was 23K, she would not have been able to go back and lose more and MIL would have her savings still in tact.

FUEGO · 05-14-2010, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayc

I am sorry to hear about this and cannot stop thinking about the kids. I hope the rest of the family pitches in and makes sure they have support and the basics.

Why would you make this payment now. This debt is between the people at the poker table. You mentioned possible cheating in these games and the gamblers took on the risk of loaning the money. I think this is the best and fastest way to bring this thing to a climax. (SIL hitting bottom).
They made the loan, they take the risk. Why is your family more concerned with making cheating low-life gamblers whole than their
Patriarch of the family(MIL).
If family had done this when the debt was 23K, she would not have been able to go back and lose more and MIL would have her savings still in tact.

No one is paying SIL's gambling debts for her any more (I hope at least). MIL can't - she has hardly anything liquid left at this point.

What I was saying is that just the monthly 10% interest that SIL will owe plus her credit card min. payments will consume basically her whole paycheck. Not that I or anyone else will be paying these things.

The kids will be ok I think. All of the family lives within a few miles of each other, and they will be staying at Grandma's house during the day while her parents are at work. We send lots of food to Grandma's house for our kids (who stay there during the week), and we know a lot of it goes to feed the other kids too. And occasionally SIL's kids will spend the weekend at our house.

growing_older · 05-15-2010, 11:06 AM

I am not hopeful that SIL will suddenly wake up. Likely her family life will suffer and she will need to hit a fairly hard bottom before she changes (if ever). If BIL thinks there is a possibility of divorce, even if it is somewhat in the future, he should be careful to make sure the status quo is always kids are with him, he is residing where kids reside, he is primary caretaker at all times. Courts (even in states without presumption of mother gets custody) lean strongly towards awarding custody to mothers, and that would be very bad for kids in this situation. A strong track record of being primary caretaker and strong record of always residing with kids, while mother resides elsewhere, are usually necessary if he want to try to get custody instead of their mother.

Sesq · 05-15-2010, 01:41 PM

Good luck. Just caught up on the last week of updates. Don't show the SiL the thread - the URL alone will get her thinking you are the honeypot even more. You never know when she might say something about you to her obligors.

chris2008 · 06-28-2010, 08:48 AM

I am a bit curious how the story continued and wonder if you'd like to update us.

FUEGO · 06-28-2010, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris2008

I am a bit curious how the story continued and wonder if you'd like to update us.

From talking to SIL's husband, things are getting better between them but he didn't really want to go into details. Maybe she's just having a winning streak. I think the frequency of gambling has decreased a lot, but don't know for sure. I might be able to figure out what's going on this weekend since we'll probably have a 4th of July get together with family.

chris2008 · 06-30-2010, 04:49 AM

Thanks and have a great holiday weekend!

FUEGO · 06-30-2010, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris2008

Thanks and have a great holiday weekend!

Thanks, and same to you.

I feel another solicitation coming up from a different sister in law/brother in law. They are working towards starting a new business venture that will require some initial capital and/or borrowing. It's in a highly competitive market sector where most start ups fail within the first year. I have pre-emptively warned DW to expect solicitation and be on her A-game to say we have no money and can't get any money and regrettably cannot help financially at this time.

Maybe I'm just paranoid now. That still doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.

TromboneAl · 06-30-2010, 08:25 AM

You need to move, man (and don't leave a forwarding address).

W2R · 06-30-2010, 08:28 AM

Good approach to the situation, Fuego.

I have known someone with in-laws always asking for money. The more he gave them, the more they asked for. They tried to get to his money through his wife, and through creating dissension in the marriage. It was an unending problem, with one pitiful plea after another, until he finally "shut off the spigot" and made it clear for a few years that that was the way it was going to be.

Then, magically, they managed to live their lives perfectly well without his money.