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Old 04-21-2010, 05:13 PM   #21
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If you feel compelled to aid financially, why not give the money to the husband? So long as these debts are owed to legitimate entities like credit cards, licensed gambling establishments, etc., the husband should be able to pay these debts with relative ease.
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Old 04-21-2010, 05:18 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by brewer12345 View Post
Loan or not, a compulsive is likely to disregard agreed-upon terms and just dig themselves in deeper. You probably know this, but just sayin'...
what Brewer said
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Old 04-21-2010, 05:23 PM   #23
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I totally agree with W2R. At some point she has to take responsibility for her actions. She will not learn and make the appropriate changes in her behavior if she is bailed out this time or any time in the future. She cambled away money she didn't have. Your giving her the money will be just enabling her. She needs big help. Try to guide her to seek help, but do not pay her debts for her.
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Old 04-21-2010, 05:24 PM   #24
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I can see no way this ends well. If you give/lend her the money you will never see it again, you will be $23,000 in dept, and it will become a real sore stone between you and you wife's family. You are not making a loan. At least not any kind of loan I have ever heard of. I say this because there is slim or no chance of you ever getting your money back. Sometime within the next 3 to 5 years she will be at your door with dire needs again.

A couple of questions:
Are you in a state where these debts are legally collectable?
If not, what are the physical threats to non payment?
If necessary are you and the family willing to get the police involved?

As I said, I see no good outcome to this, but I would not give her the money. If the possibility of physical violence is present, I would go to the law.
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Old 04-21-2010, 05:41 PM   #25
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I am in the camp of not loaning giving her the money....

But if you 'must'... then I would make them feel the pain... not just make it go away...

Take ALL their jewerly... take one of the cars... take some furniture.. why should they not have to part with something tangible because of what this lady did

I had a BIL who was an alcoholic... did not drink for the last 40ish years of his life... but he started to gamble and was losing money... he finally stopped, but we never knew how much he lost...

I also know a lady who is a compulsive buyer... and she has had two houses foreclosed, kicked out of apartments and been without a car a few times because she could not pay her debts.... but even then, she kept buying... so if you SIL is like this... nothing will change...
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Old 04-21-2010, 05:48 PM   #26
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Seems to me what this all boils down to is how your DW feels about it. Regardless of your SIL's actions, she is still your wife's sister.

The two of you discussing this matter, coming to an agreement you both feel good about and keeping peace under your roof is what matters.
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Old 04-21-2010, 05:54 PM   #27
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Oh - that is really bad news! So sorry to hear it.

The husband sounds like he is facing reality. Is this more your wife to ready to accept it? I would give credence to the husband's opinion.

I just can't imagine handing over that money. I don't understand the point.

Good luck with the intervention steps.

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Old 04-21-2010, 06:32 PM   #28
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I don't understand why you're even considering giving her the money. This is one of the easiest slam dunk decisions there is.
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Old 04-21-2010, 07:04 PM   #29
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Wow, what a horrible story. I think your answer is right here -

Quote:
Her husband says if we give her the money, we may never see it back, and she won't learn any lesson and it will all be gambled away.
I hope that the intervention helps her to see what she is doing to all of her family. Rather than giving her money that you have to borrow from your home equity, I agree with the suggestion that all of you help her and her family out by being supportive while she deals with her problem. Offer all kinds of support EXCEPT FOR CASH.

If you can't outright refuse to give them the $23,000, can you fib a little and say that your HELOC wasn't approved? Bad economy and all.
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Old 04-21-2010, 07:32 PM   #30
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I'd say as difficult it is, to say, that it isn't your job to bail her out, no matter how painful it is to watch and making it more difficult because her husband from what you described is a nice, honest man. Of course, if you take this stance hopefully your wife will understand that it's now your job to bailout her sister with her addiction.
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Old 04-21-2010, 07:36 PM   #31
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Of course, if you take this stance hopefully your wife will understand that it's now your job to bailout her sister with her addiction.
I suspect this is the rub as it is likely the culture of his wife's family will make it very difficult to say no to the loan.
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Old 04-21-2010, 07:41 PM   #32
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I suspect this is the rub as it is likely the culture of his wife's family will make it very difficult to say no to the loan.

That actually was a typo. I meant to say DW understands it NOT(instead of now) his job to bailout her sister.
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Old 04-21-2010, 07:43 PM   #33
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I also know a lady who is a compulsive buyer... and she has had two houses foreclosed, kicked out of apartments and been without a car a few times because she could not pay her debts.... but even then, she kept buying... so if you SIL is like this... nothing will change...
Come to think of it, yes she is also sort of a compulsive shopper (100 times less compulsive than the gambling though). Having 40-50 shirts in the closet with tags still on them (for a 5 person family). And still credit cards to pay.

Other than this huge black mark against her, she is a good person. She tries to help out her parents and family however she can. Her parents don't speak English well, so she has to spend a lot of time paying their bills and helping with the little things in life we take for granted. I hope she can get over this without destroying her family and losing her house and everything else they have.

To me this is a wakeup call to protect my assets from sticky handed family. I need to develop an air tight cover story for FIRE. And they will never know how much money we have. We may just be long term unemployed for a long time. Like forever.
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Old 04-21-2010, 07:44 PM   #34
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That actually was a typo. I meant to say DW understands it NOT(instead of now) his job to bailout her sister.
Either way (not or now), her family is likely going to expect her and FUEGO to come up with the money. Just my opinion - hope I'm dead wrong and FUEGO and his spouse don't feel cultural pressure to ante up...
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Old 04-21-2010, 07:47 PM   #35
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If you can't outright refuse to give them the $23,000, can you fib a little and say that your HELOC wasn't approved? Bad economy and all.
Yes, this is the story I plan to use, at least initially. I have luckily put off any real big promises of money for 4-6 weeks since that is what it takes to actually get any money under the heloc. And no one else besides DW knows about the approval of the heloc. "Gosh darn these bank transfers and 10 day minimum holding periods - nothing I can do!". I could stall like this forever.
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Old 04-21-2010, 07:49 PM   #36
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...

To me this is a wakeup call to protect my assets from sticky handed family. I need to develop an air tight cover story for FIRE. And they will never know how much money we have. We may just be long term unemployed for a long time. Like forever.

This probably wouldn't fly, but I bet if you went up to your SIL and her family and said, "Well, times have been rough lately for you, can you borrow $10,000 from them", they would avoid you like you had the plague and not bug you again.
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Old 04-21-2010, 07:50 PM   #37
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Seems to me what this all boils down to is how your DW feels about it. Regardless of your SIL's actions, she is still your wife's sister.

The two of you discussing this matter, coming to an agreement you both feel good about and keeping peace under your roof is what matters.
Yes, I think DW gets something like a 60% vote in this matter! It is her sister, but OUR money. I may explain it like $23000 equals roughly $1000 a year forever. That would buy us a week at the beach or a 5 day cruise for our family. Every year. And we are dumping it down the drain to feed someone's habit where they throw this money away in a couple weekends.

At the end of the day, there's a good chance our relationship with the sister will be tarnished regardless of whether we give her the money. Might as well be $23000 richer and 1 SIL poorer.
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Old 04-21-2010, 08:05 PM   #38
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I'm late to the discussion, but I agree with all those who advised not to lend her the money. You are just feeding the addiction, putting your own goals at risk, and creating future conflict. Walk away from the HELOC, in fact, cancel it so you are not tempted.

What this lady needs is an intervention and maybe a trustee.
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Old 04-21-2010, 08:37 PM   #39
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I will give you my 2 cents as a person who likes to gamble and have seen some things.

You are not helping this person by giving them the money. If you do, it's rinse and repeat. Besides that, you will never see it again and it could put a strain on all relationships involved.

Besides gamblers annoy. which I recommend, I think you need to get more details of what happened and who she owes. Help her devise her own payment plan through salary and selling of assets.

Good luck.
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Old 04-21-2010, 08:57 PM   #40
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You may be the family bank as I am. This is not the sort of loan I would make from the family bank. Why not bankruptcy? Is the debt her's alone so only she would have to file? Or is the state a community property state? Have you worked through the exemptions to see how they would come out in a bankruptcy? Who lent this kind of money to her in the first place?

If you make a loan consider taking a security interest in the cars. Odds are she will default. Would you be willing to repossess the vehicles? Watch the potential usurious interest rate.
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