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Old 04-26-2010, 11:39 AM   #161
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For something you had nothing to do with. YOU weren't gambling.

Let me guess - - she didn't offer to do anything radical like take a second job in order to pay off the $10K independently, because her husband ("Mr. Gold-Necklace") would have to take care of the kids while she is at work.
Yeah, I know I'm not gambling. But I have a wife who wants to help her sister. That is an expense I may have to deal with. In this situation, we have not given any money yet. And we don't intend to until specific actions have been observed and we feel it is ok to give the money.

The gambler SIL did say she has picked up extra shifts at her job. It was 3-4 days a week, now 5 a week I think.

I don't know if I mentioned it earlier, but the husband has said they are cutting back on expenses such as cable and a few other things.
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Old 04-26-2010, 12:02 PM   #162
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Fuego,

My unsolicited two cents. If I were in a similar situation I would insist that Husband gives gold chain as deposit on repayment, fully returnable after repayment or he sells them and uses cash to pay off debt. Also, their paid for car(s) could be sold and beater/less expensive vehicles purchased. From the outside, just looks like SIL and husband are not feeling any/enough pain... Good luck and boy am I glad I'm not in your situation.
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Old 04-26-2010, 12:09 PM   #163
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had not really eaten anything all day other than splitting one sub sandwich 4 ways for breakfast (no money).
If they could find a fast food restaurant that has some kind of scratch-off game card, everyone could be happy.
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Old 04-26-2010, 12:18 PM   #164
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I wish to send thanks to everyone involved in this, as it is easily the most interesting thread to appear around here ever. This is why Dostoevsky wrote The Gambler and not SWR Guy.

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Old 04-26-2010, 12:33 PM   #165
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I wish to send thanks to everyone involved in this, as it is easily the most interesting thread to appear around here ever.
I'll pass the thanks on to my SIL.

May we all live in interesting times.
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Old 04-26-2010, 12:36 PM   #166
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The gambler SIL did say she has picked up extra shifts at her job. It was 3-4 days a week, now 5 a week I think.
Poor baby! Having to work one full time job like everybody else in the world?

I suspect I am not the only one here who has had to work two fulltime jobs at sometime along the road. Yes, it's no fun. I think she ought to try it before trying to wheedle money out of you.
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Old 04-26-2010, 02:01 PM   #167
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We are not giving her any of our money until we know she is recovering.
The cynical part of my mind thinks that your SIL is planning on putting up with not gambling for a few weeks in order to get the $10.3K out of you.

Not to be "pun"-nish, but I'd guess she sees that as a very good bet.

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Old 04-26-2010, 02:50 PM   #168
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Fuego,

My unsolicited two cents. If I were in a similar situation I would insist that Husband gives gold chain as deposit on repayment, fully returnable after repayment or he sells them and uses cash to pay off debt. Also, their paid for car(s) could be sold and beater/less expensive vehicles purchased. From the outside, just looks like SIL and husband are not feeling any/enough pain... Good luck and boy am I glad I'm not in your situation.
I have said the same thing... but since HE does not think anybody should help her out... he is not going to do it...
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Old 04-26-2010, 02:54 PM   #169
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I can just see it... MIL.. "No, I REALLY mean it this time".... as she writes another check to SIL...

But you did say that the big money only started a couple of months ago.. so it is not like this has happened before...

I am surprised at how people can waste away their money so quickly... I enjoy gambling a bit, but it usually goes so quickly I do not do it...
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Old 04-26-2010, 03:28 PM   #170
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I wish to send thanks to everyone involved in this, as it is easily the most interesting thread to appear around here ever. This is why Dostoevsky wrote The Gambler and not SWR Guy.

Ha
I, too, have found this thread to be most interesting. I usually just read the finanical threads, but this one caught my attention. I must confess that I was as anxious as anyone to see what happened at the intervention.

The fact that SIL has a gambling problem is bad, and the thought that you might feel obligated to lend (give) her money to pay off her gambling debts is a real waste, but the saddest part to me is the impact SIL's behavior has on the kids (self esteem issues...Mom spends her time and money gambling instead of on me; Mom has gambling debt she can't pay, but the family will pay it for her...so I can do what ever I want because nothing really bad happens anyway, etc.). IIRC, you mentioned that this SIL has been named in your will to care for your children in the event that you and DW die. Does that still work for you?
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Old 04-26-2010, 03:40 PM   #171
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I think Fuego and DW are having the wool pulled over their eyes. They are frantically rationalizing how "helping" family will achieve the desired result. It's not going to work.

This will not end well.
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Old 04-26-2010, 03:47 PM   #172
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Fuego,

My unsolicited two cents. If I were in a similar situation I would insist that Husband gives gold chain as deposit on repayment... Also, their paid for car(s) could be sold
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I have said the same thing... but since HE does not think anybody should help her out... he is not going to do it...
It would seem that "HE" knows better than you and the culprit's sister. Why in the world would you bail out someone who's own husband (who still lives with her) feels deserves no help?
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Old 04-26-2010, 03:55 PM   #173
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I think Fuego and DW are having the wool pulled over their eyes. They are frantically rationalizing how "helping" family will achieve the desired result. It's not going to work.

This will not end well.
Agree- especially since the SIL's DH won't even put his gold chain or SUV up for collateral. He obviously doesn't think there will be any physical repercussions. This is a handout, not a helping hand.

IMO, the best thing would be no cash help- SIL needs to lose face with the local gambling community. Being banned from the table for non-payment would solve the problem of future gambling with these sharks.

"This will not end well."
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Old 04-26-2010, 03:58 PM   #174
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Fuego,

My unsolicited two cents. If I were in a similar situation I would insist that Husband gives gold chain as deposit on repayment, fully returnable after repayment or he sells them and uses cash to pay off debt. Also, their paid for car(s) could be sold and beater/less expensive vehicles purchased. From the outside, just looks like SIL and husband are not feeling any/enough pain... Good luck and boy am I glad I'm not in your situation.
Perhaps the gold chain is only really worth $70. Hey, if it's not an emergency to him, the he!! with putting up my money.

I would have also required, if I was hosting the intervention, that it be English only if at all possible.

Has it been mentioned how she specifically lost it gambling and how she owes different people?
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Old 04-26-2010, 06:37 PM   #175
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For the record, my FIL used to have a really bad gambling problem decades ago. Back in the old country. I guess he hit bottom and is cured now.
Just now saw the above. Yes, I have seen "Like father like son" ringing true in more than one occasion. I have described my own family and my wife's situation in an earlier post.

About my gambling uncle, at least one of his daughters was also into gambling. Last I heard, she stopped for now. "Out of money" was the reason. And having to do menial work to make a living sure takes away all the free time to gamble.
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Old 04-26-2010, 11:13 PM   #176
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Fuego,

Not to condone the irresponsible behavior of your gambling SIL, but as you probably already know, gambling is a pervasive problem in the Asian culture. A link here to add some perspective: Gambling, Addiction, and Asian Culture : Asian-Nation :: Asian American History, Demographics, & Issues

I know for many it is difficult to understand, how can someone just go ahead be so irrational and gamble away money that could have been saved for the children. Not to make too many stereotypes, I hope, but I suppose this is the vice of that culture like the stereotype of Americans maxing out on too much credit and digging a hole that's difficult to climb out of.
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Old 04-27-2010, 03:38 AM   #177
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I think Fuego and DW are having the wool pulled over their eyes. They are frantically rationalizing how "helping" family will achieve the desired result. It's not going to work.

This will not end well.
I think Fuego understands the problem. He is between a rock and hard place. If DW says we should loan SIL money and he disagrees and something bad happens to her not only is the relationship between the sisters in trouble, but his relationship with his wife is seriously damaged.

How about the couple who loaned his SIL 12,000 and isn't even collecting interest. They are friends not family. I am more sympathetic because I have been around gambling addicts a lot and seen the pattern happen, and yes middle age Asian woman seem to have a special knack for getting themselves in way over their head.

Realistically, it doesn't sound like she is ready to quit gambling, at least not yet. So all you can do is attempt to minimize future losses in the intermediate term.

A couple of comments. The 10% interest a month is troubling although, in the old days juice use to be 10% a week. She absolutely needs to pay that debt and tell them she isn't going to pay them interest. Period, no interest, not now or ever and she won't pay it on any future loans. This will have the effect of cutting her off from important source of funds. They won't do anything bad to her to because she did pay of the debt, but the lost any profit, so probably no future marks. She should use her mom's money to pay them.

The husband needs to talk to the couple who he owes $12,000 to. (Ya, I know his wife owes it but... in sickness (and compulsive gambling qualifies) and health isn't that what the vows say?). He needs tell them, he will be paying them back but only on two conditions, they never ever loan her money again, and they start spreading the word to all of the poker games in town that his wife, isn't paying her marks. Most card games extend credit to regular customers (it is an easy way to get people to gamble more) but once word gets out that that B*tch Jane is marking (i.e. borrowing) all over town but she hasn't paid me a dime of the 12 large she owes me, games will cut her off.
Frankly if the husband isn't willing to confront the couple than, I think you have a good reason to wash your hands of the mess.

Finally, make sure to read up on the IRS rules regarding writing off bad debt to family members and structure your "loan" appropirately. After taxes, your out of pocket loss may only be $6,000 instead of $10,000.
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Old 04-27-2010, 06:19 AM   #178
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Good advice from clifp, Fuego. If hubby won't follow that advice he doesn't real care. If SIL won't take it she is not thinking.
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Old 04-27-2010, 07:56 AM   #179
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Isn't it true that if you forgive a loan and write it off your income tax, then the forgivee owes taxes on the forgiven amount as regular income?
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Old 04-27-2010, 08:16 AM   #180
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Complexity: SIL tries to renegotiate debt. Fuego evaluates SIL behavior and uses urinalysis to determine whether she has stopped gambling. After a period of time a loan is made from a number of different relatives, with carefully structured payments. The loan payments are monitored and enforced. Gold and other possessions are used as collateral for the loan.

Simplicy: SIL sells gold and other possessions and pays off debt. Learns lesson.
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