National Park Etiquette

[MRG]

Had a Glock 20. 10MM is a great flat shooting round but I wouldn't want to use it for protection against a bear, especially those bears with the hump at the base of their necks.

Unless you are going with a wheelgun or something exotic(Desert Eagle) a 10mm is the hottest thing around. It's a puny 700 ft. pounds vs some 44 magnum loads at 1200 ft pounds. Some say bears don't read the ballistics data.

 

[2017ish]

A couple of references to graffiti. Did anyone else see this story from earlier this week (and from 2014)? I don't even have words....

A 23-year-old San Diego woman was sentenced to two years' probation and 200 hours of community service for damaging some of the most picturesque rock formations in seven national parks by drawing or painting on them using acrylic paints and markers.

Casey Nocket pleaded guilty to seven misdemeanor counts of damaging government property after painting a similar image called "Smoking Lady" and the handle "creepytings" on some of the most beautiful landscapes in the country, including on the beginning of the John Muir Trail in Yosemite. She would post photos of her drawings on her social media accounts.

Yosemite vandal sentenced for defacing rock formations in national parks - San Jose Mercury News

 

[Mulligan]

A couple of references to graffiti. Did anyone else see this story from earlier this week (and from 2014)? I don't even have words....







Yosemite vandal sentenced for defacing rock formations in national parks - San Jose Mercury News

These idiots dont need prison time and wasting everyones tax dollars even more... They need an "exclusive mandatory appointment" with a Master Singapore Caner. The lasting impression from this visit would accomplish the same and save money.


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[REWahoo]

These idiots dont need prison time and wasting everyones tax dollars even more... They need an "exclusive mandatory appointment" with a Master Singapore Caner. The lasting impression from this visit would accomplish the same and save money.

True, but we all know that's not going to happen in the US justice system.

OTOH, there is some leeway in where he serves his sentence...

 

[photoguy]

What's amazing is that people like Nocket either thought that (1) they were doing nothing wrong or (2) believed they wouldn't get caught despite publicizing their crime on social media.

 

[2017ish]

She got 200 hours community service (cleaning parks up?) and probation. Truly sounds like she either was somehow absolutely clueless (or convinced everyone that was the case). "That clueless" ~ "didn't know water was wet" IMHO--and, yes, I did a lot of stupid stuff at 21.

On one level, social media gave her the nonphysical equivalent of caning, the stocks, or the scarlet letter. As always, much shaming was administered (in this case, justified--apart from the death threats, etc.) Hopefully, others will learn.

 

[Mulligan]

True, but we all know that's not going to happen in the US justice system.

OTOH, there is some leeway in where he serves his sentence...

Good one! But we are getting so soft, even that isn't allowed anymore with the frequency it needs... Our country needs needs either me or Putin installed as "President" to tighten up our justice system.


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[MichaelB]

what's amazing is that people like nocket either thought that (1) they were doing nothing wrong or (2) believed they wouldn't get caught despite publicizing their crime on social media. or 3) they weren't thinking.

fify

Reminds me of a co-worker back in the day. As company counsel he often dealt with the consequences of things gone bad. He said he didn't mind so much the people trying to circumvent the rules, because that was to be expected - but there was nothing more dangerous and destructive than a moron with initiative.

 

[REWahoo]

Originally Posted by photoguy
what's amazing is that people like nocket either thought that (1) they were doing nothing wrong or (2) believed they wouldn't get caught despite publicizing their crime on social media. or 3) they weren't thinking or the incident involved the phrase "Hold my beer and watch this."

Re-FIFY

 

[Sunset]

These idiots dont need prison time and wasting everyones tax dollars even more... They need an "exclusive mandatory appointment" with a Master Singapore Caner. The lasting impression from this visit would accomplish the same and save money.
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My first impression had been that she won't consider the 200 hrs much of a punishment, and will be doing it again.
Unless of course she had 1 hand amputated.
But she is only 23, and was just being an idiot. Hopefully she had to pay for her own lawyer, so the legal bill would be many thousands.

 

[pjm-7]

Get the bear spray ready! This bear at Yellowstone knows how to open a car door to meet the tourists.
Yellowstone Bear Opens Tourist's Car Door; Terrorizes Family [VIDEO]

 

[Blueskies123]

Ignorent jerks.

I cannot believe these people were boy scout leaders and one of them was on disability. If you read the comments I simply cannot believe how many people were saying it was no big deal. These people should get more than probation.

 

[Chuckanut]

I cannot believe these people were boy scout leaders and one of them was on disability. If you read the comments I simply cannot believe how many people were saying it was no big deal. These people should get more than probation.

Besides a fine and jail time, these guys should be made to put the rock back where it was.

 

[skipro33]

Let me get this straight;
A bear shot with an ear shattering noise and energy of 357 or other caliber smaller than a in-it's-tracks 44mag or larger caliber is going to continue a charge as long as it physically can put one paw in front of another, but will stop a full charge, turn and run at the wiff or contact of bear spray? I'd believe that if the spray hit the bear square in the eyes and instantly blinded him and I could sidestep.

Watch this video and ask yourself if bear spray would have helped at all in this bear charge?
(Warning, the bear is shot in order to stop the charge)

There are a bunch of youtube videos of guys spraying themselves or each other with bear spray. They are not instantly incapacitated. Some are not even aware of the physical discomfort due to the booze in their system. (Sorta like the Adrenalin, say, in a bear charging and wanting to bite you in two.)

 

[FI by 2024]

Let me get this straight;
A bear shot with an ear shattering noise and energy of 357 or other caliber smaller than a in-it's-tracks 44mag or larger caliber is going to continue a charge as long as it physically can put one paw in front of another, but will stop a full charge, turn and run at the wiff or contact of bear spray? I'd believe that if the spray hit the bear square in the eyes and instantly blinded him and I could sidestep.

Watch this video and ask yourself if bear spray would have helped at all in this bear charge?
(Warning, the bear is shot in order to stop the charge)

There are a bunch of youtube videos of guys spraying themselves or each other with bear spray. They are not instantly incapacitated. Some are not even aware of the physical discomfort due to the booze in their system. (Sorta like the Adrenalin, say, in a bear charging and wanting to bite you in two.)

The consensus from a quick googling appears to be yes, bear spray is more effective. I looked at four articles. I think this one was the most convincing.

http://www.fieldandstream.com/artic...pper-spray-instead-guns-stop-charging-grizzly

"The results? Bear spray, when properly used, halted aggressive bear behavior in 92 percent of the cases. Of the 175 people involved in the bear-spray encounters, only three were injured and none required hospitalization. Wind interfered with the spray in only five incidents, and in no case, stresses Smith, did it fail to reach the target. Twelve users reported irritation from the spray, but the irritation was minor in all but two instances. And in the 71 encounters when bear spray was used, not once did the can malfunction.

By comparison, Smith's examination of the use of firearms in hundreds of bear encounters shows that bullets deterred a charge just two-thirds of the time, and that it takes an average of four shots to stop a bear."

 

[eytonxav]

The consensus from a quick googling appears to be yes, bear spray is more effective. I looked at four articles. I think this one was the most convincing.

Use Pepper Spray Instead of Guns to Stop a Charging Grizzly | Field & Stream

"The results? Bear spray, when properly used, halted aggressive bear behavior in 92 percent of the cases. Of the 175 people involved in the bear-spray encounters, only three were injured and none required hospitalization. Wind interfered with the spray in only five incidents, and in no case, stresses Smith, did it fail to reach the target. Twelve users reported irritation from the spray, but the irritation was minor in all but two instances. And in the 71 encounters when bear spray was used, not once did the can malfunction.

By comparison, Smith's examination of the use of firearms in hundreds of bear encounters shows that bullets deterred a charge just two-thirds of the time, and that it takes an average of four shots to stop a bear."

+1 and its recommended by the National Parks Service:https://www.nps.gov/media/video/view.htm?id=252AA3FD-155D-451F-6725C13B55C070BE

 

[Sunset]

Let me get this straight;
A bear shot with an ear shattering noise and energy of 357 or other caliber smaller than a in-it's-tracks 44mag or larger caliber is going to continue a charge as long as it physically can put one paw in front of another, but will stop a full charge, turn and run at the wiff or contact of bear spray? I'd believe that if the spray hit the bear square in the eyes and instantly blinded him and I could sidestep.

Watch this video and ask yourself if bear spray would have helped at all in this bear charge?
(Warning, the bear is shot in order to stop the charge)

There are a bunch of youtube videos of guys spraying themselves or each other with bear spray. They are not instantly incapacitated. Some are not even aware of the physical discomfort due to the booze in their system. (Sorta like the Adrenalin, say, in a bear charging and wanting to bite you in two.)

He used a rifle, and a rifle has a lot more power than a handgun of the same caliber as the barrel is longer and often the round has more propellant.

 

[Mulligan]

The consensus from a quick googling appears to be yes, bear spray is more effective. I looked at four articles. I think this one was the most convincing.

http://www.fieldandstream.com/artic...pper-spray-instead-guns-stop-charging-grizzly

"The results? Bear spray, when properly used, halted aggressive bear behavior in 92 percent of the cases. Of the 175 people involved in the bear-spray encounters, only three were injured and none required hospitalization. Wind interfered with the spray in only five incidents, and in no case, stresses Smith, did it fail to reach the target. Twelve users reported irritation from the spray, but the irritation was minor in all but two instances. And in the 71 encounters when bear spray was used, not once did the can malfunction.

By comparison, Smith's examination of the use of firearms in hundreds of bear encounters shows that bullets deterred a charge just two-thirds of the time, and that it takes an average of four shots to stop a bear."

If I was part of the 8% that was not finding the spray effective, I would immediately change my strategy to focus on outrunning the person I was with.


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[Chuckanut]

And then we have this:

Woman banned from US land for defacing rock formations and posting on Instagram | Daily Mail Online

But after proudly posting her work on Instagram, she provoked outrage on social media and was later arrested.
Some of the vandalism proved difficult to remove as sandblasting and chemical stripping techniques used to remove paint can cause irreplaceable damage to natural features.

In one post from the time, she wrote: 'It's art, not vandalism. I am an artist.'
The case also prompted a White House petition demanding she be prosecuted with more than 10,000 people signing the document.

Really?!?! This person does not see the problem with defacing natural beauty and property that belongs to all of us?

 

[travelover]

............Really?!?! This person does not see the problem with defacing natural beauty and property that belongs to all of us?

She is an artist.