Naysayers

[Midpack]

Any time you look into whether or not you should try doing something, especially something bold or daring, there is going to be someone who says you can't.

They are the "naysayers," and they are abundant. If we had listened to them, we would have missed out on the greatest experience of our lives. The naysayer comes in one of three types:

First, there are those who want to do what your attempting --- have considered it, dreamed of it, even casually thrown it out as a potential "someday" or retirement plan. But they never will. Deep in their hearts they know it, and they use "can't" as an excuse for themselves and a deterrent to others, all efforts pointing toward the grand goal of making themselves feel better. Not that there's anything wrong with preferring security, confirm, known entities, and a general lack of danger in your life; there isn't, but it us wrong to pretend to be a free-spirited adventurer and then disdain those who are.

Other naysayers have done what you're attempting, but, in doing so, expended far more resources and feel superior for it. No one who's justified (to themselves, their family, their friends) spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on living a dream wants to know that someone else could achieve a similar goal spending, say, ten thousand. Nor does someone who waited his or her whole life to embark on an adventure want to admit that two twenty somethings with nominal experience can just quit their decent jobs, go gallivanting around on an old boat full of cheap wine and ramen, and the regain decent jobs afterward. It just ain't that easy, dammit!

Finally there are the naysayers who truly believe certain goals can't be achieved, that they're simply too unsafe or even impossible. Their concern is perhaps more philanthropic --- they just don't want to see a couple of quixotic young lovers die at sea.

Whatever their reasons, these people are all saying, "can't," "don't," "stop," "no."

A lesson many learn too late. From a very entertaining read:

 

[pb4uski]

Reminds me of some Robert Kennedy quotes:

One-fifth of the people are against everything all the time.

Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly.

Some men see things as they are and say, why; I dream things that never were and say, why not? (paraphrasing George Bernard Shaw)

 

[splitwdw]

I have this saying on my desk. "The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it."

 

[Souschef]

TR Quote

One of mmy favorites:
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

 

[eytonxav]

The modern reference for "naysayers" is "haters". At least we use that term in the gym for those that mock our attempts to improve ourselves physically.

 

[karen1972]

One of the top 5 biggest regrets older people having is doing what is "expected", not what they want to do.

I've always dreamed big, bucked the status quo, and I'm much happier for it.. the only time I wasn't happy was when I got lost and started living the "status quo". Good thing I got smacked out of that and FIRED.

 

[W2R]

I can honestly say that when I went for my main education and financial goals in life, there was not one single person on the face of this earth who believed I could reach my goals except for ME. Not my parents, not my friends, not my family, not my spouse, not anybody. I expect that many of us here probably had that same experience.

You can't let others decide what you can and can't do. They will always say "nay", but it's not fair to yourself to let them make that decision and put limitations on your life. Be obstinate, go for your dreams with all the drive that you have in you, and win. Show them what you're made of.

 

[Lsbcal]

I can honestly say that when I went for my main education and financial goals in life, there was not one single person on the face of this earth who believed I could reach my goals except for ME. Not my parents, not my friends, not my family, not my spouse, not anybody. I expect that many of us here probably had that same experience.
....

I'm glad you (and others here) did accomplish what you wanted to do even without the emotional support of people close to you.

I don't think I had such a negative experience with my goal setting. Most people were supportive I think. I tend to get a kick out of being outside the pack and sometimes I feel more of an observer then anything else. So maybe I have fewer "opportunities" to hear naysayers. Sometimes people will express an alternate view which should be considered. If an alternate (perhaps negative) view sticks in one's mind then it should be taken into consideration just for the sake of completeness.

 

[Midpack]

Great quotes and references guys, thanks. That's the spirit - exactly!

 

[Texas Proud]

Well, I will be a naysayer......

Some of the way people do what they want is not any way I wish to live... When I was young, I met someone who was living a vagabond lifestyle... he was a ski instructor and waiter... he did not have a home... he usually lived in a dorm or hostel... most of his life was committed to the pursuit of skiing.... (I hate skiing, so really something I did not want to do)....

I also read about people who live cheaply who go dumpster diving... something that does not interest me at all....


I would love to see what happens to these people when they are in the 50s to 80s.... what kind of life are they living.....


So, sure, you can do things that people say you cannot.... but IMO, it is more of a lifestyle issue as opposed to nobody can do it issue....

 

[Major Tom]

W2R - yours is a truly inspirational tale. It must have been tough enough to not have your family or friends on board, but to have a non-supportive spouse on top of all that must have been very challenging.

Good for you - you prevailed!

 

[W2R]

W2R - yours is a truly inspirational tale. It must have been tough enough to not have your family or friends on board, but to have a non-supportive spouse on top of all that must have been very challenging.

Good for you - you prevailed!

Thank you! I wished it could have been different. I am glad that I didn't let it stop me.

 

[Lsbcal]

I'm getting the feeling on this thread that people are interpreting the OT in very different ways. This is not necessarily bad but I'd be interested to hear from Midpack on why he personally felt this book was important.

There was an episode in Mad Men which dealt with the Madison Avenue guys collision with the 1970's flower children. I remember Roger's daughter went off to a commune and he and his wife visited it to try to turn their daughter around -- it was fascinating, partly comic, and partly ugly. Actually a lot of that series dealt with lifestyle choices and naysayers.

In the end of Mad Men, Don Draper found himself at a California retreat, possibly the Esalen Institute in Big Sur? He found his next path there and it was an amusing end to the series.

 

[CaliforniaMan]

Well I am guessing those on this forum are the ones that took the risks and came out on top. There are plenty of people who ignored the "naysayers" who should not have ignored them, and have ended up at the bottom of the heap. They are probably not posting here. I have one good friend since college, he took risks, should have become wealthy, but he didn't. Now he tells me he will have to work until he dies. I agree much of the nay saying comes down to jealously, but some may be just prudence. You place your bets and spin the wheel.

 

[razztazz]

Dare to do stuff? Pish-posh. My answer to these people is always: "So what? Are you the First one? The only one? The best one? Seems like you're nothing special after all."

And then they get defensive and start with that "Oh yeah. well at least I *did something.*" stuff. Like someone said, it's a lifestyle issue.

Wanting to do something is not an achievement.
Having the opportunity to do it is not an achievement.
Deciding to do that thing instead of an infinite number of other things is not an achievement.
Having it work out well instead of disastrously is not an achievement.
Having it work out tragically instead of successfully might be due to you screwing up but it might not be. In any case you will likely be regarded a screw-up and unsuccessful, and derided with "should have kept you day job." and things of that nature.

No, people talking of their boldness and daring and achievements are just walking around with their hands out looking for something.

 

[audreyh1]

For some reason, where I grew up kids put each other down all the time, so I learned to ignore them early.

 

[Major Tom]

Dare to do stuff? Pish-posh. My answer to these people is always: "So what? Are you the First one? The only one? The best one? Seems like you're nothing special after all."

Most of us are not doing anything truly unique, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't do it. Every time I do something that I haven't done before, it adds to my personal skillset, and gives me a sense of achievement.

I may be reading your comments in a way they weren't intended, but they come across to me as a strong discouragement for a person to try anything at all, unless it has not been achieved or tried by any other human being, living or dead.

Please tell me you're not the Debbie Downer I think you might be.

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

Since I left work, DW seems to be rather negative with respect to new adventures such as long-term residences in interesting places. Bummer.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Early Retirement Forum mobile app

 

[Midpack]

I'm getting the feeling on this thread that people are interpreting the OT in very different ways. This is not necessarily bad but I'd be interested to hear from Midpack on why he personally felt this book was important.

While it is/was meaningful to me, my reasons aren't important - everyone is going to interpret it for themselves, including the naysayers...

 

[Rick_Head]

WADR, why do other's opinions matter?

 

[ERD50]

WADR, why do other's opinions matter?

A good point, IMO (if that matters ). I'm interested in other's opinion from the view of what I can learn from them. Did I miss something, maybe they will show an unintended bias on my side, or something?

Otherwise, what does it matter?

Though sometimes it just makes me wonder - why would someone think like that?

-ERD50

 

[MuirWannabe]

A good point, IMO (if that matters ). I'm interested in other's opinion from the view of what I can learn from them. Did I miss something, maybe they will show an unintended bias on my side, or something?

Otherwise, what does it matter?

Though sometimes it just makes me wonder - why would someone think like that?

-ERD50

Is this really all that hard to understand? We are humans after all. So yes, other people's opinions can and do matter to us. Certainly at least to me. Not to say I'll listen and always only do what matches other folks opinions. But those close to us, that we care about, certainly influence us. I'm not a robot without emotion.

 

[ERD50]

Is this really all that hard to understand? We are humans after all. So yes, other people's opinions can and do matter to us. Certainly at least to me. Not to say I'll listen and always only do what matches other folks opinions. But those close to us, that we care about, certainly influence us. I'm not a robot without emotion.

I don't think it has anything to do with being robotic. It's just if I decide I want to do something, then why do I need to be so concerned about what other's think? Do I need their 'approval'? Just do it ( outside of what I discussed, listening to opinions to see if something is off with my thinking ).

-ERD50

 

[Midpack]

WADR, why do other's opinions matter?

Not sure who your WADR is aimed at, but other's opinions shouldn't in the final analysis, that's the point. Lots of people let naysayers talk them out of their hopes and dreams whether big or small, probably more than not. There are legit naysayers of course, but they're outnumbered by naysayers who are thinking of themselves, their own fears and shortcomings.

I'm sure you've heard the adage "Be bold and courageous. When you look back on your life, you'll regret the things you didn't do more than the ones you did." Most of the best experiences in my life have been the ones most of my contemporaries wouldn't have done - I hope I ever forget that. YMMV

 

[Bigdawg]

I can honestly say there is nothing that I really wanted to do that I haven't done. I have never felt the need for other peoples support of my choices/goals. I have never been the best at anything I have attempted but I ended up being better than most at almost everything I have attempted. Does that make sense? I am not a perfectionist so I am content being in the 90-95% in almost everything attempted. A lesson learned a long time ago is that there is always someone faster, smarter, taller, bigger, etc... When the Bear came, I was not the fastest. I was just faster than the Bear's appetite. I rarely get jealous and for the most part support others and their hopes and dreams.

I look at life as a series of wins. Graduated high school=win-not everyone does. Graduated college=win, got married-still married 23 years later=win. Two healthy kids=win. Two kids in college=win, ... FI=win. There have been some hiccups. Son was born a month before we got married. Not afraid to fail. I learn a lot when I fail. I feel that many people on this forum are in the same boat. Successful but maybe a bump or two in the road that they have overcome. I am happy for the couple in the OP because they did what they want. I am doing what I want. I hope that all of you do what you want to do and accomplish what you set out to do.