NE Patriots, cheating, and related topics

[ziggy29]

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Originally Posted by RunningBum It's even more than that. A baseball team has limited pitching resources over a season, so a manager has to use them wisely. This means you don't use your top reliever in a game that is essentially lost, but rather one of your mop up men to finish the game. But if you've got a big bet on your team, you might be less likely to give up on a game and use your most valuable resource even though the best strategy for the whole season would be to save him for when he'd be more likely to get or preserve a win.

This is exactly what I think. Even if you manage every game to win and never bet against your team, are you more likely to treat a mid-May game like a Game 7 if you had a big bet on that one game? Will you abuse the bullpen -- affecting their chances for the next couple of days as if there's no tomorrow -- in a desperate effort to win that one game when most managers would just write it off and prepare for tomorrow? This is why the "he never bet against the Reds" argument fails to sway me, though certainly I'd think it worse if he ever bet on the Reds to *lose*.

Not saying Rose ever did that, but the potential is there, the appearance of something slimy is there, and it stains the game. Now it's unfortunate that we can't separate Rose the *player* from Rose the *manager* when it comes to Cooperstown. Because as a player he absolutely *should* be there -- but he crapped the bed as a manager by violating baseball's most sacrosanct rule, and his whole body of work matters.

[Winemaker]

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Originally Posted by redduck The moderators created this thread, transferring the argumentative/hate posts over here from the NFL 2015 thread--then no one takes them up on it. So... I'M GLAD THE CHEATNG PATRIOTS AND THE CHEATING TOM BRADY AND CHEATING BILL BELICHICK LOST!!!!! (A thread is a terrible thing to waste).

+2

[Corporateburnout]

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Originally Posted by 6miths No Pats fan but credit to them for getting so far despite all the injured personnel.

Good to hear from an objective football fan.

[Dawg52]

I watched the Pats/Bronco's game, the only complete game I have watched since last years Super Bowl. Not an NFL fan, but love college football. I watched mainly because I do like Peyton and I know his playing days are about over. Would love to see him go out with one more SB win, but Carolina looks like the best team based on the few highlights I have seen. Not sure I will even watch the SB as I can't stand Cam Newton.

[utrecht]

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Originally Posted by pb4uski Yup. NE has played in 7 of the last 10 AFC Championships... Steelers only 2. NE has played in 10 of the last 15 AFC Championships... Steelers only 5. Almost makes one feel sorry for Steelers fans that their team bows out early so often.

Nice! Pick out a certain time frame in history to make your teams stats look best. How about we talk abut who has the most SuperBowls all time?

The Patriots have been dominant with Brady at QB. Other than that theyve been generally pretty bad over time. Lets see what they do when Brady is gone.

The Steelers have been in the thick of things almost every year, every decade, with multiple QBs. They have more Hall of Famers, more Pro-Bowlers, more playoff appearances, more playoff wins, more Super Bowl wins....ect. The Steelers are the best franchise of all time.

[ChiliPepr]

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Originally Posted by Dawg52 I watched mainly because I do like Peyton and I know his playing days are about over.

Yup, I believe that his last game is his next one... by the middle of the summer more info will come out about him taking HGH and he will not want that four game suspension. You know it is more likely than not he took HGH.

[Whisper66]

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Originally Posted by ChiliPepr Yup, I believe that his last game is his next one... by the middle of the summer more info will come out about him taking HGH and he will not want that four game suspension. You know it is more likely than not he took HGH.

On what data would you make that assumption. IMHO it seems as logical as many of the financial talking heads statements. Just my opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

[pb4uski]

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Originally Posted by redduck Jan 08, 2011 Pittsburgh Steelers lead NFL in merchandise sales ..... I suppose you're now going to complain that this article was written in January of 2011.

Yes, you're right... I'd be embarrassed if I had to go back that far in time to prove a point.

[Corporateburnout]

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Originally Posted by Whisper66 On what data would you make that assumption. IMHO it seems as logical as many of the financial talking heads statements. Just my opinion. Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

Since when do we need data to indict someone for cheating in the NFL? Do you mean the erroneous PSI data leaks to Mortensen and King who later apologized for running with incorrect information? Or the data by Exponent the hired "independent" firm to back the "independent" Wells' investigation? This data was refuted by all scientists from MIT, Carnegie Mellon, the University of Chicago, Rockefeller University and the University of Illinois among others.

The league will investigate the HGH issue only if it fits its agenda.

[pb4uski]

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Originally Posted by utrecht Nice! Pick out a certain time frame in history to make your teams stats look best. ....

I just picked the most recent 10 and 15 years... no cherry picking. I think any Pats fan would concede that they were pretty dismal before Belichick and Brady. Some success under Parcells but Carroll was a disaster.

As far as the Steelers being the best franchise of all time... you are delirious. They have been quite ordinary over the last 10-15 years.

[6miths]

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Originally Posted by pb4uski Hard to believe that given that they only have 2 players in the top 25 of jersey sales. BTW, wanna guess who is number 1? Top Selling NFL Player Jerseys on NFLShop.com

Actually 3 by my count. 1, 3 and 13. In a 32 team league, 3/25 is pretty good. Interestingly, both Denver quarterbacks are on the list. Osweiler at 23 is a surprise!

[ziggy29]

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Originally Posted by pb4uski As far as the Steelers being the best franchise of all time... you are delirious. They have been quite ordinary over the last 10-15 years.

Best franchise or not, I suspect almost all teams in the NFL would love to be "ordinary" if that means winning two Super Bowls in that timeframe.

[utrecht]

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Originally Posted by ziggy29 Best franchise or not, I suspect almost all teams in the NFL would love to be "ordinary" if that means winning two Super Bowls in that timeframe.

Not too mention making the playoffs so many times. Without going back and looking, I would bet that there's not more than 4-5 teams that have made the playoffs as many times as the Steelers have in the past 10-15 years. And how many have won 2 SBs? I guess we have a different definition of "ordinary"

[utrecht]

Ill tell the Pats fans the same thing I said 20+ years ago to my friend who was a Cowboy fanatic. I hope you enjoyed the run because its coming to an end very soon and when it does, its going to be a long time before you get back. This friend is suddenly a Bronco fan and doesnt even mention the Cowboys anymore.

The Patriots offense is based around Brady and Gronk. Edleman couldnt make the starting team on most other teams. He just fits this offense with Brady running it prefectly. Brady will be gone soon and Gronk is getting beat to hell so who knows how long he will be around. The rest of the offense is close to terrible. Sure Brady is probably the best of all time, but the rest of the offense is a merry go round. They have no WRs and no RBs. The offensive line is average at best. If they dont make major changes, they will have a losing record the first year without Brady. Actually they will look alot like the Cowboys looked this year when Romo went down.

[Corporateburnout]

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Originally Posted by utrecht Ill tell the Pats fans the same thing I said 20+ years ago to my friend who was a Cowboy fanatic. I hope you enjoyed the run because its coming to an end very soon and when it does, its going to be a long time before you get back. This friend is suddenly a Bronco fan and doesnt even mention the Cowboys anymore. The Patriots offense is based around Brady and Gronk. Edleman couldnt make the starting team on most other teams. He just fits this offense with Brady running it prefectly. Brady will be gone soon and Gronk is getting beat to hell so who knows how long he will be around. The rest of the offense is close to terrible. Sure Brady is probably the best of all time, but the rest of the offense is a merry go round. They have no WRs and no RBs. The offensive line is average at best. If they dont make major changes, they will have a losing record the first year without Brady. Actually they will look alot like the Cowboys looked this year when Romo went down.

The same could be said about most successful teams. The NFL salary cap was created to provide parity and prevent team dominance but the Patriots still dominated the last 15 years. Let's not forget that in the first few years of their dominance the Patriots were a balanced team and Brady was a game manager. They won with strong defense and a strong running game (Antoine Smith, Corey Dillon) so when Brady retires they will try to reinvent themselves to remain competitive. That's what makes Belichick one of the best.

Meanwhile what's wrong with enjoying the ride while it lasts.....

[HFWR]

Since I didn't pick who was drafted, don't call any plays, and most certainly don't get any royalties or bonuses, I don't have a "team" to defend. Having played basketball and baseball in high school, rather poorly, I would add, I appreciate the skill level it takes to be a pro, and I enjoy watching for that reason. But, say, if the Cowboys win the Super Bowl, heh, I'm not sure how that gives me bragging rights. It just makes Jerry Jones a little richer...

Sports is the male equivalent of a soap-opera, er, uh, daytime drama...

[jollystomper]

Giants fan here - yeah we sucked this year but at least we've had the Patriots number most of the time over the last 8 years. I have tremendous respect for the Patriots and saw Deflategate as a non-story tempest in a teapot. Regardless you cannot argue with their success - yeah they probably pushed the rules but that alone doesn't give you the record they have had with Brady. The Broncos found success the way the Giants and others have - by having a strong 4/5 man rush to cause Brady to hurry throws before his receivers can break open. Interesting that the Patriots offensive line coach was fired today.

IMHO as long as both Bellichick and Brady are there team will still get a minimum of 10 wins per year (which is a challenge for the Jets whom I also root for). The challenge will be (a) maintaining a strong offensive line and (b) catching lightning in a bottle and find another QB like they did with Brady, once he retires. In today's NFL Parity that is becoming increasingly difficult.

[redduck]

Quote:

Originally Posted by redduck The moderators created this thread, transferring the argumentative/hate posts over here from the NFL 2015 thread--then no one takes them up on it. So... I'M GLAD THE CHEATNG PATRIOTS AND THE CHEATING TOM BRADY AND CHEATING BILL BELICHICK LOST!!!!! (A thread is a terrible thing to waste).

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Originally Posted by Winemaker +2

+3

[utrecht]

Belichick has excelled at putting cheap cast off players around Brady and watching Brady make them better players. When Brady is gone, we will see if Belichick can persevere. My guess is he looks very average as a coach at that point, but if Im wrong I will eat crow.

[Corporateburnout]

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Originally Posted by utrecht Belichick has excelled at putting cheap cast off players around Brady and watching Brady make them better players. When Brady is gone, we will see if Belichick can persevere. My guess is he looks very average as a coach at that point, but if Im wrong I will eat crow.

Not sure if we will ever find out especially if Brady is around for a few more years. How many more years do you think Belichick will be around for? He will be 64 at the start of next season.