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Re: Neat little software app
Old 06-10-2005, 09:31 PM   #21
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Re: Neat little software app

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I'd agree with that. I'm going to bet that the vast majority of mac users couldnt tell you who made the processor in the one they own. They might know its a g3 or a g5 or the MHz but I'd bet thats about it.
Oh they'll notice when they buy a new x86 Mac, go to install Quark Express and Photoshop, and realize that they have to spend another grand upgrading their software. Hold outs will notice when the new versions of apps that they need only run on x86.

Apple is saying that rebuilding for x86 is easy, and they are probably right. But releasing new products targeted at both ppc and x86 Macs will cost the software vendors. They'll probably punt on PPC soon after the x86 Macs are released.
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Re: Neat little software app
Old 06-10-2005, 11:24 PM   #22
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Re: Neat little software app

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Motorola/IBM processors simply lag behind Intel in pure performance and frequency of release.* Now Intel has dual cores, dual cpu's on a chip, all sorts of extensions for multimedia, etc.* Plus the price/performance ratio is definitely not motorola/IBM's strong suit.
As far as performance goes, it depends on what metrics you want to use. MOT and IBM have both produced processors with superior speed on occasion. But both have had huge hiccups on product introduction schedules. Intel may get passed up briefly, but if you are trying to compete with them, they just keep comming at you -- getting better and better and better.

Price/performance is driven by volume. As long as MOT and IBM keep screwing up other aspects of their business, they will never capture enough volume to compete with Intel.
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Re: Neat little software app
Old 06-11-2005, 01:02 PM   #23
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Re: Neat little software app

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Oh they'll notice when they buy a new x86 Mac, go to install Quark Express and Photoshop, and realize that they have to spend another grand upgrading their software. Hold outs will notice when the new versions of apps that they need only run on x86.

Apple is saying that rebuilding for x86 is easy, and they are probably right. But releasing new products targeted at both ppc and x86 Macs will cost the software vendors. They'll probably punt on PPC soon after the x86 Macs are released.
I'd imagine that many s/w vendors would offer a reasonably priced upgrade to migrate from a ppc to x86 app. Reason being the mac will be flooded with a host of new competitive apps from companies that didnt want to bother with making a ppc and x86 version of their s/w. This could be a real boon for mac users. The recross pollination might mean x86 windows users might also get better, easier to use apps that come over from the osx/ppc platform.

As far as vendor cost, quite a few are already building and maintaining both osx/ppc and windows/x86 versions. This should make their lives a little bit easier rather than harder, but theres a hump to get over. Hopefully apple gave their key developers the wink and nod at least a few months ago so they could get going on the work.

There may also be a reasonable emulation solution. I would imagine that a 2GHz Dothan Pentium-M with 64 bit extensions would run a full-on osx/ppc emulation with reasonable enough speed to get someone by for a little while until the native s/w becomes stable. If that doesnt do it, a 4GHz pentium 4 will probably do.

SG - your points are well made. While there have been some small performance disparities from time to time there hasnt been enough of a 'kick' from the risc camp to compel application developers or businesses/users to want to jump. Which in a way is a little pathetic if you really know what an incredible kludge the x86 architecture is. And processors have never been the big deal for either IBM or motorola. Its just about the only deal with intel. And considering intels track record with non-processor stuff, you could remove the words 'just about' from the last sentence and not feel like you really misstated.

My first comments on the PPC architecture were something like "they're going to have a chicken and egg problem with product acceptance/penetration and applications availability, and they're also never going to get enough of a performance edge on IA to really make people take a hard look. It'll be a niche product at best.".

Considering I once said that MS-DOS would never knock over CP/M, that the IBM PC would never sell and that there was no way we'd ever get high speed networking running over unshielded twisted pair wire, I'm pleased that I got it right at least once.

Maybe John is right, maybe I am a moron in disguise Perhaps I *should* have listented to my friends siren song about sexy mensa women and joined the club to help bolster my own self image and validate my intelligence...
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Re: Neat little software app
Old 06-11-2005, 02:04 PM   #24
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Re: Neat little software app

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Maybe John is right, maybe I am a moron in disguise * Perhaps I *should* have listented to my friends siren song about sexy mensa women and joined the club to help bolster my own self image and validate my intelligence...
I don't think your self image needs any help The worst date of my life
(I had some bad ones) was with a fellow Mensan. I still call her
"The Woman from Hell". Anyway, never in the course of human events
was an adventure entered into with more verve and optimism, only to
morph almost immediately into a sinkhole of disaster. The Iraq War
is a close metaphor

JG
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Re: Neat little software app
Old 06-11-2005, 02:26 PM   #25
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Re: Neat little software app

So in other words, you bombed extensively?

Or was it after agreeing to the date under false pretenses, bad information and potential lying, she thought it dragged on way too long?
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Re: Neat little software app
Old 06-11-2005, 02:35 PM   #26
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Re: Neat little software app

Yup, just click 'rebuild' and ship-it. That's all it takes .

Everyone is saying that Mac users will wait to upgrade until the new x86 Macs are out. My friend runs a business on her Mac. WHen I told her that they were switching, she said uh-oh - I better upgrade before the switch. She's been through the 68000 to ppc transition, and the OS-9 to OS-X transition. Every time it's been a major disruption for her.

I'm surprised that Mossberg missed the software compatibility issue. I'm pretty sure that Intel and Microsoft have always been backward compatable at least one generation, usually many more.
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Re: Neat little software app
Old 06-11-2005, 02:40 PM   #27
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Re: Neat little software app

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So in other words, you bombed extensively?

Or was it after agreeing to the date under false pretenses, bad information and potential lying, she thought it dragged on way too long?
Weren't you the guy who introduced them
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Re: Neat little software app
Old 06-11-2005, 02:41 PM   #28
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Re: Neat little software app

I experienced the osx transition. I bought a copy for $129 to go with the imac I bought the wife. I was fairly ticked to have paid for a piece of alpha software. We ended up reinstalling os9 and then paying another $20 for the 10.1 update when it came out. It wasnt much better. At least 10.2 worked.

So as far as I'm concerned, apple should never mutter word one about the quality of microsofts s/w.

Unless they're talking about windows millenium edition. The worst piece of crap to ever be foisted on the computing public in the history of the universe. If you're still running ME and having weird problems that never make sense, get rid of it and either back up to windows 98 or get a copy of XP. You wont regret it either way.
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Re: Neat little software app
Old 06-11-2005, 02:41 PM   #29
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Re: Neat little software app

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Weren't you the guy who introduced them
Nah that wouldnt have worked. It appears that John only has eyes for me. Lets hope it stops at the eyes. :P
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Re: Neat little software app
Old 06-11-2005, 02:45 PM   #30
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Re: Neat little software app

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So in other words, you bombed extensively?

Or was it after agreeing to the date under false pretenses, bad information and potential lying, she thought it dragged on way too long?
Actually it was the reverse. *The woman was a "head case" and would have gone on abusing me as long as I would allow it, I do believe. *Anyway, I assume your query is based on your dating
system/experience. *Can't really say I'm surprised *

JG
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Re: Neat little software app
Old 06-11-2005, 03:47 PM   #31
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Re: Neat little software app

Methinks the abuse was well deserved
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