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Re: Need help with my vultures
Old 03-07-2006, 01:37 PM   #21
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Re: Need help with my vultures

Martha, that is what makes all this so frustrating. The house is worth less that $100k and $30k is owed.

These clowns are fighting tooth and nail to split $60-70k eventually.

These 3 siblings have one trait in common. They are lazy beyond belief.

The only reason I don't pay it off and never look back is because my mom would refinance and give $20k to each of them and be right back to current problem.
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Re: Need help with my vultures
Old 03-07-2006, 01:42 PM   #22
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Re: Need help with my vultures

That's a bad situation. Maybe you should save the money you were thinking of using to help now, and use it later to rent her an apartment (or buy a condo) if/when she can no longer afford her house and vultures.
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Re: Need help with my vultures
Old 03-07-2006, 02:00 PM   #23
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Re: Need help with my vultures

OAP,

There are many problems here with not any good solution...

You should not throw away your money to help out your mother if she is only going to get back in trouble.. let's say she has a drug problem.. you continue to pay for treatment, but she always goes back to the drugs... do you give her a fix Not me.

If you have only talked to her 20 minutes in 30 years, shame on YOU. I would sit my mom down and let her have it. Tell her you do not want ANYTHING, but to see she is taken care of. That the others need to be 'put out'... change the locks. She is thinking that she has to help out her 'babies' even though they are not anymore... tell her to let them sink.

Here is my one suggestion besides doing nothing... have her sell the house, take the equity and buy an annuity. That way she gets a monthly check that they can all try to get, but at least she will not blow it all at once....

Or just walk away yourself until she hits rock bottom and is willing to change (which by the way might be never).
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Re: Need help with my vultures
Old 03-07-2006, 02:07 PM   #24
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Re: Need help with my vultures

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Originally Posted by OldAgePensioner
Martha, that is what makes all this so frustrating. The house is worth less that $100k and $30k is owed.

These clowns are fighting tooth and nail to split $60-70k eventually.

These 3 siblings have one trait in common. They are lazy beyond belief.

The only reason I don't pay it off and never look back is because my mom would refinance and give $20k to each of them and be right back to current problem.
That would blow.
You also wouldn't want to buy the house from her because she would squander the money.

If you do decide to buy the mortgage or make a new mortgage, you will need to run it past your accountant because there may be tax consequences to you, especially as you may want to forgive certain payments or modify the mortgage so the payments are not due until sometime in the future. The mortgage should also be amended to prohibit junior loans, if it doesn't prohibit them already.

Of course, if you buy the mortgage and forgive payments, and continue to pay her housing expenses, your mother may very well use the now available cash for your siblings.

You may decide it is time for you to walk away, telling your mother that you cannot enable her to bail out your siblings anymore and have the talk Texas Proud suggests.


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Re: Need help with my vultures
Old 03-07-2006, 02:24 PM   #25
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Re: Need help with my vultures

How about this? Let them sink. All of them. Then after the vultures fly off, spend your dough on a nice apartment/house for your mother thats too small for anyone else to live in with her.

Sucks to let it hit bottom, but that may be the only way to resolve it cleanly without any further mayhem or vulture suckage.
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Re: Need help with my vultures
Old 03-07-2006, 02:42 PM   #26
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Re: Need help with my vultures

Texas Proud, long story but I was on my own at 15 years old because my mom had too big a household and no husband. But I have kept in contact weekly by phone for the last 40 years even paying $400-500 phone bills from overseas.

When she enters a room, she immediately starts tidying up, spewing psycobabble but try asking her (as I did) "mom, let's discuss your current situation". She knows every obit, every terrible car accident, every piece of gossip, etc. But she will not focus on the issues. If I mention that we need to find a way to ensure her payments are made, she is most likely to say "son, have you tried that new Taco Bell sandwich?"

My brother and I have literally spent thousands of conversations trying to help her understand. She seems to then go tell both sisters what was said and the cauldron begins to boil. Newts are flying, cat hair is sauteeing.

She can concoct some of the most absurd assertations you've ever heard.

And no, she is not senile. She has a memory like you can't buy.
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Re: Need help with my vultures
Old 03-07-2006, 02:55 PM   #27
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Re: Need help with my vultures

CFB,
I suspect that's where I'm heading. One brother (one of the vultures) will most likely let her move in with him. Why not, now he has her SS. But hey, that's fine with me.

I leave Chicago in 6 weeks and I would love to have some piece of mind for her but it ain't gonna happen.

Martha,
My brother and I did a quick calculation using our checking account statements and it's easily $200k given (given) to her over the last 8 years. She has refinanced, she runs up debt, and she basically lies like a dog. If you catch her, she pulls the poor old me routine.
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Re: Need help with my vultures
Old 03-07-2006, 04:59 PM   #28
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Re: Need help with my vultures

OP,

You're a saint ... I'ld have stopped the payments at the start. Then have mom move in with me/us.

If you continue to feed a stray cat it'll keep coming back.
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Re: Need help with my vultures
Old 03-07-2006, 05:09 PM   #29
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Re: Need help with my vultures

tryan,
my youngest brother (hard working guy) has a good ole country girl wife who would just love to get my mom into their home.

The trouble is that my mom dotes on all her deadbeat children and loves being the hero that helps them.

Today is my first day of saying "NO", "NOT JUST NO, but hell no".
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Re: Need help with my vultures
Old 03-07-2006, 06:06 PM   #30
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Re: Need help with my vultures

OAP, You've done more than most would do, I hope things work out for the best but my gut tells me it won't. Stick to your guns and take solace in the fact that you've tried. Now it's time for you to take care of YOU!! Enjoy your life.
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Re: Need help with my vultures
Old 03-07-2006, 06:12 PM   #31
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Re: Need help with my vultures

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldAgePensioner
tryan,
my youngest brother (hard working guy) has a good ole country girl wife who would just love to get my mom into their home.

The trouble is that my mom dotes on all her deadbeat children and loves being the hero that helps them.
You and your brother were the heros.

Quote:
Today is my first day of saying "NO", "NOT JUST NO, but hell no".
It sounds like the thing to do.

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Re: Need help with my vultures
Old 03-07-2006, 06:14 PM   #32
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Re: Need help with my vultures

OAP, I agree with Outtahere. You are a pawn in their game, nothing more. If you continue to support them they will gladly accept. If you don't play their game anymore they will eventually grow tired of your mom. Then you can step in, if you want. In the meantime, she seems to be in her element. Some people like that role she's playing. It's not your thing, you want to help her, but she loves being the center of attention. Just let her. Live your own life. Be happy in SF. Heal yourself first. Be responsible for yourself, not everyone else. I wish you well.

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Re: Need help with my vultures
Old 03-07-2006, 06:15 PM   #33
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Re: Need help with my vultures

Outtahere,
thanks for the comments and my gut feel is also that I'm heading for disaster (Molly Hatchet).

In my best dream, I get her debt free and happy. *But, .....

Tryan, if my mom ever moved into this brother's home, life would improve by a googleplex at least. *His wife just worships my mom and they are fun people. *I can only hope
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Re: Need help with my vultures
Old 03-07-2006, 06:20 PM   #34
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Re: Need help with my vultures

OAP.... that's one of my fav songs!!!
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Re: Need help with my vultures
Old 03-07-2006, 06:21 PM   #35
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Re: Need help with my vultures

LL,
Great to hear from you. *Hope you are well and I must say, those wooden floors looked nice.

I agree with your assessment that she is in her element. *She seems to relish being the center of pity.

The amount of money and effort for me was something I could handle but the manipulation and connivance was not acceptable.

T
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Re: Need help with my vultures
Old 03-07-2006, 06:32 PM   #36
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Re: Need help with my vultures

Outtahere,
One of my best friends in the early 70's was a roadie for MH and Danny Joe Brown used to stop by his place a lot. Good times.
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Re: Need help with my vultures
Old 03-07-2006, 06:44 PM   #37
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Re: Need help with my vultures

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha
One possibility is to buy the loan from the lender.* I have done that for parents who buy their spendthrift kid's mortgages.* This is cheap and easy to do.*

Another possiblity is to pay off the mortgage through a new loan from you to your mom.* Secure that loan with a new mortgage.* Forgive payments as they come due.*
Martha, would that create a tax liability for OAP? Or for his mother, since the IRS might argue that there loan was forgiven, and thus she received income?
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Re: Need help with my vultures
Old 03-07-2006, 06:56 PM   #38
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Re: Need help with my vultures

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Martha, would that create a tax liability for OAP? Or for his mother, since the IRS might argue that there loan was forgiven, and thus she received income?
You can probably work around the forgiveness of debt income with the gift concept. I did think about the possible tax consequences and suggested in another post that he consult with an accountant for the tax consequences. I have some concern about imputed interest income.
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Re: Need help with my vultures
Old 03-07-2006, 06:59 PM   #39
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Re: Need help with my vultures

Aaaaah OAP, the good ole days, good times and good friends.
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Re: Need help with my vultures
Old 03-07-2006, 07:01 PM   #40
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Re: Need help with my vultures

Ha,
I asked that question about 6 months ago of an attorney in my mom's hometown. *His answer left me feeling that the IRS is kinda forgiving in terms of interest rate charged, and payments forgiven.

But, after reading Martha's response, I need to really get someone to address her comments if I do pay any money towards my mom's house.
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