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Need help with my vultures
Old 03-07-2006, 11:06 AM   #1
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Need help with my vultures

Here is proof that no good deed goes unpunished.

My Objective:
- Pay off my mom's usurous Home Equity Loan of $30k @ 13%. Since I already pay utilities, taxes, etc, this would make her debt free for life on all housing issues.

My Fears:
- The home would be refinanced within weeks because there are three total worthless (non-working) bums just waiting for a hand out. And my mom is spineless.

My Current Status as Conniving A-Hole
- Talk is that if I really had my mom's best interest in mind, then she should get the money without any limitations.

My Druthers:
- I don't want any legal attachement to this group at all. I wanted to help out and ride off for quiter pastures.

Any ideas?
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Re: Need help with my vultures
Old 03-07-2006, 11:07 AM   #2
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Re: Need help with my vultures

OAP, just keep paying the utilities, etc. As you say, the moment the home is free and clear they will run it up again.
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Re: Need help with my vultures
Old 03-07-2006, 11:09 AM   #3
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Re: Need help with my vultures

Then do that and dont look back over your shoulder. You did your bit, if they **** it up afterwards, well...whats that old saying? Wherever you go, thats where you'll be?

Otherwise have yourself put in as some sort of lienholder or something where you have no legal liability, but the house cant be sold, mortgaged or borrowed from without your express permission. Not sure how that would be done, but I would bet its doable. Thats the string thats attached to the deal...if thats not acceptable, then thats that.

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Re: Need help with my vultures
Old 03-07-2006, 11:11 AM   #4
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Re: Need help with my vultures

Brewer,
She is going to lose the house because she isn't able to pay. She has the money, it just get's spent on the vultures.

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Re: Need help with my vultures
Old 03-07-2006, 11:14 AM   #5
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Re: Need help with my vultures

One possibility is to buy the loan from the lender. I have done that for parents who buy their spendthrift kid's mortgages. This is cheap and easy to do.

Another possiblity is to pay off the mortgage through a new loan from you to your mom. Secure that loan with a new mortgage. Forgive payments as they come due.

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Re: Need help with my vultures
Old 03-07-2006, 11:16 AM   #6
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Re: Need help with my vultures

CFB,
I despise these vultures so bad that I cannot phathom them having my money and laughing as they sit on their rears.

Family is ............ *ARGHHHH.
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Re: Need help with my vultures
Old 03-07-2006, 11:23 AM   #7
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Re: Need help with my vultures

Then Just Walk Away.

Your mom is a grown person. Let her paddle her own canoe.
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Re: Need help with my vultures
Old 03-07-2006, 11:57 AM   #8
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Re: Need help with my vultures

I like Martha's ideas.* If you can structure it properly, supplant yourself as the lienholder with senior rights and a prohibition on future encumbrances/alienation without your express permission.* Assuming the vultures have no ownership interest in the house, your mother will need to be the one to authorize any future encumbrances, and therefore will need to obtain your permission -- which you won't give.

Unfortunately, if you want to protect your mom from the vultures (which you should), you'll need to have some legal connection with her (at least as to the house).
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Re: Need help with my vultures
Old 03-07-2006, 12:11 PM   #9
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Re: Need help with my vultures

This probably violate rule #4, but if you pay off the mortgage, could you also title the house in your name? You'd have to protect yourself with a huge liability insurance policy, and you'd want to will the property to your mother (or, better, a trust).

Come to think of it, maybe a trust that owns the house for as long as your mother lives would be another idea. The vultures can sue the trust if they choose, not you...
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Re: Need help with my vultures
Old 03-07-2006, 12:48 PM   #10
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Re: Need help with my vultures

Martha,
As always, great advice. If I bought the loan, what leverage does that give me to stall my mom reselling?

It's incredible how carefree my mother acts. That is irking me to no end.


Jay_Gatsby, Your last line is really the crux and my desires for my remaining life are to be un-encumbered. What a trap I'm in. At the end of April, I move to SF with only a suitcase, a backpack, some books in storage and very few accounts.

sc, I like the idea of a Trust. If I could convince my mom to take the initiative. But, I really think she is suspicious of my motives.
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Re: Need help with my vultures
Old 03-07-2006, 12:59 PM   #11
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Re: Need help with my vultures

OAP, if you don't want to deal with this once it's done (liens or what not) why not put the money for the mortgage into a trust that will pay the payments to the mortage co holding the exsisting mortgage only. Once the loan is paid in full any remaining monies could go to a charity of your choice. The one stipulation I would put on this trust is if for any reason the mortage is rewritten or changes in any aspect the trust is then disolved ( or what ever that term is) and donated to the charity.

Is that something that could be done Martha?


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Re: Need help with my vultures
Old 03-07-2006, 01:04 PM   #12
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Re: Need help with my vultures

OAP, there is nothing you can do now that won't eventually end badly. *If it were me, I would help along the way but not commit too much. *Just be there to pick up the pieces for your mom if it really falls apart.
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Re: Need help with my vultures
Old 03-07-2006, 01:09 PM   #13
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Re: Need help with my vultures

Just my 2 cents, but it seems like many of you are looking at complex solutions and not solving the problem.

The problem (as I understand it) is that the 'vultures' are grabbing your Mom's money. You can do all sorts of things with the mortgage, with liens, with trusts, etc, but the vultures will just find another way to take money.

I'm more with CFB on this - walk away. Or, if you want to be more proactive (I would), you need to have a heart-to-heart talk with your Mom and show her the consequences of her actions. She is giving money to freeloaders, and she will lose her house. The freeloaders will never change, they will always want more - she can never fulfill their needs. If you bail her out, it just reinforces her actions.

You are just painting the stain on the ceiling rather than getting up on the roof and fixing the leak. The stain will come back - soon.

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Re: Need help with my vultures
Old 03-07-2006, 01:13 PM   #14
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Re: Need help with my vultures

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldAgePensioner
Martha,
As always, great advice. If I bought the loan, what leverage does that give me to stall my mom reselling?

Your mom could always sell the house but she would have to pay off the mortgage.

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Re: Need help with my vultures
Old 03-07-2006, 01:14 PM   #15
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Re: Need help with my vultures

Does the legal attachment that you don't want to "this group" include your mother?

If it doesn't, then one option is to buy the house from you mother then give her a life interest ("life estate")
in the property. That way she can live there but can't do anything to borrow money on it. That may be more that you are willing/able to spend, but its an option.
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Re: Need help with my vultures
Old 03-07-2006, 01:17 PM   #16
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Re: Need help with my vultures

Brewer,
Yeah, I got a feeling it's not gonna end well. *And the pieces are falling as we speak. *All 3 freeloaders are in dire straights and good ole mom can't bail them out. *As a result she is sinking also.

"How could a person do this to their own mother." *I despise half my siblings.
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Re: Need help with my vultures
Old 03-07-2006, 01:20 PM   #17
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Re: Need help with my vultures

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldAgePensioner
Brewer,
Yeah, I got a feeling it's not gonna end well. *And the pieces are falling as we speak. *All 3 freeloaders are in dire straights and good ole mom can't bail them out. *As a result she is sinking also.

"How could a person do this to their own mother." *I despise half my siblings.
Look at it this way: you want to help your mom out, but you can't help those who won't help themselves. So let things fall apart. Its not what you really want, but it will happen anyway, so you might as well get used to it and husband your resources. When the commode hits the windmill, your mom will be separated from the freeloaders one way or the other. That's where you step in. In the meantime, offer a sympathetic ear and try to allay her fears/worries.
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Re: Need help with my vultures
Old 03-07-2006, 01:22 PM   #18
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Re: Need help with my vultures

OAP

I think they call it tough love.

Easy to say, hard to do.
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Re: Need help with my vultures
Old 03-07-2006, 01:26 PM   #19
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Re: Need help with my vultures

How much equity does your mom have in the house anyway?
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Re: Need help with my vultures
Old 03-07-2006, 01:31 PM   #20
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Re: Need help with my vultures

ERD50,
I have had less than 20 minutes of face-to-face talk with with my mother in the last 30 years. She loves gossip and babble but anything else sends her scurrying.

She seems to have no concept of her situation and you are probably right that helping is not a solution. My brother and I have bailed her out for years. *She gets away with it.

The vultures take their problems (money) to my mother in a very emotionally blackmailing way and then she comes to my brother first and then me.

Walking away will be difficult but ya know, I'm leaning that way.

Martha and shiny, I think my contribution is now down to this. *I will say "Mom, it would not be right for me as only one child to try to influence your decisions, please take advantage of any help from your lawyer and accountant to resolve this shortfall in a manner that pleases my siblings."
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