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Old 01-18-2014, 10:09 AM   #41
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bUU - I'm not going to follow your trail into the whole income equality thing. That will get this thread shut down, and the overall net neutrality issue is worthy of discussion. -ERD50
Very disappointed in you, ERD. I thought the potentially derailed thread was about to get interesting. I carry a similar speed internet and price, but stream very little. My only beef has been carriers trying to get me to pay more by offering other people cheaper rates. So I make my yearly call and then pat myself on the back for the savings.
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Old 01-18-2014, 10:28 AM   #42
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bUU - I'm not going to follow your trail into the whole income equality thing.
Actually, it was Gatordoc who brought it up, but I agree - let's not discuss it further.

Rolling back a bit, now that I have to look up the date for it ...
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I'd much rather see a competitive environment than a government monopoly service, where possible.
The points made by others earlier is that that's not happened, and indications from industry leaders is that, for many Americans, if it hasn't happened already then it won't happen. Providing such services is really not that profitable. Verizon expanded the footprint of FiOS availability until 2008, and then determined that all they were doing was cannibalizing the profitability of the market segment, making it impossible for either they or the cable company to make enough profit to satisfy today's demanding investors. As recently as last month, Lowell McAdam, Verizon's CEO and chairman, reiterated that they will not be reconsidering their decision to end expansion of FiOS. If you want more competition in this space, and live in VZ territory, then its going to happen via municipal investment. Out west, AT&T is still expanding U-Verse, but slowly, adding availability to only 3 million homes last year, and they're cherry-picking which areas they're going to expand into.
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Old 01-18-2014, 10:45 AM   #43
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Like it or not most internet service providers operate in a world of limited or no competition. Part of the reason is expense of installing cable/wire/fiber to each building, and part is inconvenience to the public when streets are dug up, blocked, etc. to do the installation. IMHO, this lack of competition mans that at least basic services must be regulated to some degree.

Perhaps Google and its balloons will be able to bring cheap internet to all of us over an aerial wifi network. Or, a wireless system (like ClearWire) will make a technological leap and become better and faster. Or, some other thing we can't even imagine at this time will leapfrog the entire industry as we know it.
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Old 01-18-2014, 11:08 AM   #44
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Like it or not most internet service providers operate in a world of limited or no competition. Part of the reason is expense of installing cable/wire/fiber to each building, and part is inconvenience to the public when streets are dug up, blocked, etc. to do the installation. IMHO, this lack of competition mans that at least basic services must be regulated to some degree.
True, I think I discussed this a while back, but I'd like to see a situation where they run multiple cables as long as they are digging up the street. The incremental costs would be pretty small, and some sort of cost sharing could be worked out.


Quote:
Perhaps Google and its balloons will be able to bring cheap internet to all of us over an aerial wifi network. Or, a wireless system (like ClearWire) will make a technological leap and become better and faster. Or, some other thing we can't even imagine at this time will leapfrog the entire industry as we know it.
This is what I'm hoping for.

Related to all this, I'm really curious what the costs are to an ISP. I pay $29/month for mid-speed connection (fixed wireless) - I wonder what my ISP has to pay to get to a 'backbone', or whatever it is they do, plus admin costs etc.

-ERD50
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Old 01-18-2014, 03:52 PM   #45
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Out here in the midwest we actually have two cables running through our backyard. So internet is available from two different cable companies (Time Warner - was Insight until last year - and WOW), plus the phone company offers DSL. And there are a couple of radio based companies (I almost went with one of them a few years back).

I switched from Insight to WOW when they offered 50/5 service at a reasonable price. Not bad for out here in the boonies...
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Old 01-18-2014, 04:03 PM   #46
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Out here in the midwest we actually have two cables running through our backyard. So internet is available from two different cable companies (Time Warner - was Insight until last year - and WOW), plus the phone company offers DSL. And there are a couple of radio based companies (I almost went with one of them a few years back).
Even that shouldn't have to be a necessity, though. When the terrestrial long distance services were opened to competition decades ago, they didn't have to run multiple telephone lines into homes.
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Old 01-19-2014, 05:22 AM   #47
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Remember that every dollar invested must compete with every other way that dollar can be invested, so even the transport portion of a service must return what investors in for-profit companies expect for-profit services to return. A lot of mistakes were made by service businesses in the 1980s and 1990s that taught the industry sector how to handle being handled by government in the future, and the environment in the country has changed as well, protecting "the right to profit". The way things are in most states now, governments won't be able to get the votes to, or otherwise be permitted by higher authorities to, effectively nationalize a service provider, punishing them for being there first, without adequately compensating them by guaranteeing the service provider a set return based on their current return (which is either too expensive for upstarts for the content portion of the service, or ends up with a situation where consumers are no better off, and perhaps even worse off, now that there are more companies getting a cut of the profit from that supply chain).
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Old 02-19-2014, 01:21 PM   #48
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This looks encouraging:

Feds To Craft New ‘Net Neutrality’ Rules

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A federal regulator is mounting a new attempt to ensure that Internet providers can’t block or slow down certain websites, after a federal court struck down so-called “net neutrality” rules last month.
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Old 02-19-2014, 07:19 PM   #49
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I read about it too. Though it looks like they may be positioning to straddle the neutrality fence? I could argue both sides after what I've read since the thread began.
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Federal Communications Commission announced Wednesday it’s working on new guidelines that would likely ban broadband providers like Verizon or Comcast from blocking or slowing down access to any websites, including major websites that use a large amount of bandwidth like Netflix, the Wall Street Journal reports. A federal appeals court tossed out similar FCC rules last month, but acknowledged the commission’s right to regulate some broadband company practices.
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Old 02-19-2014, 08:14 PM   #50
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This looks encouraging:
Yes, it is encouraging. As always, the devil is in the details.
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Old 02-19-2014, 08:35 PM   #51
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Is it possible these days to craft an arrangement that works better than, say, the "Federal Do Not Call List"?
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