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Old 03-31-2012, 03:50 PM   #21
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Congrats Midpack. Now each time the news of the gas prices going up, you can just .
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Old 03-31-2012, 03:50 PM   #22
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Midpack, are you saying under invoice or under MSRP? Since they over allowed on the trade about 4K I would guess under MSRP. What dealers do is give you too much for your trade and charge you too much for the new car, it makes the buyer feel better.

But if you like the deal, then it's a good deal.
From post #18 above
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$300 under invoice on Toyota MSRP excluding protection package. The protection package already applied was a $698 dealer add, though I realize the markup on those pkgs is astronomical, and I'd rather the car didn't have it frankly. So I got the car for $300 to $998 under invoice, closer to the former than the latter I am sure. Surprising given record high gas prices, the other two dealers nearby one was about $2,000 higher, the other almost $4,000. The difference between dealers in all my car purchases past were about $800 to $1600 apart. So the deal I just got didn't seem possible. Must have caught them wanting to reach some month/quarter closing target. Not all luck is bad...
I bought the car a few hours ago, so it's a done deal now...
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Old 03-31-2012, 03:57 PM   #23
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I bought the car a few hours ago, so it's a done deal now...
Excellent - enjoy it.
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Old 03-31-2012, 04:54 PM   #24
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Congrats Midpack, I hope your new car provides great service and that you enjoy the new ride.
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Old 03-31-2012, 05:33 PM   #25
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Midpack - if you like your Prius half as much as I like mine, you will be a very happy driver. Best car I've ever had.

You may want to check out the forums at

http://priuschat.com

as there are lots of little things about the Prius that are different from other cars. The people there are generally nice which is also a plus.

Enjoy!
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Old 03-31-2012, 07:21 PM   #26
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I don't know what $300 under invoice on Toyota MSRP means. It's either $300 under invoice which is way less than MSRP or $300 under MSRP. Some dealers will add items to the MSPR to raise it which is an inflated #.

In any event, enjoy your new car.
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:38 AM   #27
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I'm a dealership sales manager with 15 years experience. If it sounds too good to be true....anyway, there may be a dealer incentive that allows the dealer to over allow on your trade in to entice you. what sort of vehicle are you buying?
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Old 04-02-2012, 09:52 AM   #28
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Well, yes and no. One of the things dealers do is report sales that they don't really have if they are close to the Retro #. Let's say they need 2 more cars at 11PM at the end of the month. Many of them will report the 2 cars and put them into rental service to get the money. Most dealers have a rental fleet for service customers.

Most times it's best to buy a car on the last day or weekend of the month, but not always. It's still buyer beware no matter when you buy. If you have some prices and know the real #'s and you're ready to buy then go to the dealer on the last day of the month and see what you can do.

My friend got a great deal back in 85.... he had signed the paperwork the last day of the month... he must have been #50 in your example... not sure which day of the week it was, but I think it was on a Thursday or Friday... come Monday, his bank refused the loan as it was to much of a monthly payment... the dealer decided to give him another $1,000 discount and he put another $1,000 down so he would qualify... he did get a great deal....
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Old 04-02-2012, 09:57 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by 73ss454 View Post
I don't know what $300 under invoice on Toyota MSRP means. It's either $300 under invoice which is way less than MSRP or $300 under MSRP. Some dealers will add items to the MSPR to raise it which is an inflated #.

In any event, enjoy your new car.
I can plainly see Toyota's MSRP, apart from dealer adds. I can also find invoice pretty easily online, and after the deal was done, the sales rep showed me the invoice online. I bought the car at $300 under invoice, with the dealer adds "thrown in" as if they were $0 cost. So arguably I got the car more than $300 under invoice, presumably the dealer protection package had some value even if I would have rather not had it.

Anyway it's a done deal since Saturday. Again, thanks for all the (quick) assistance. I just got very lucky I guess, beyond that I've quit questioning...
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Old 04-02-2012, 10:05 AM   #30
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I would say there are several factors in play, and you were the beneficiary.

1)The Prius family has grown for 2012, they have the wagon (Prius V), and the smaller Prius (C). They also did a little freshening of the model for the regular Prius. They obviously are looking to clear our some inventory to make room for the larger Prius family.

2)There must be some type of retro or dealer cash program in place. If they sell so many, they get $500 or $1000 back per car from the factory on each one they sell........

3)You have a Honda Element, which is a niche car whose owners are very loyal. Obviously they have a buyer for your car, who will buy nothing but Elements, so they can turn it around quick. USed cars that good gas mileage like the Element are in high demand. You could easily be getting $500-$1500 more than normal because of what I discussed above.

4)They ARE making money on the "rustproofing" package. If they are listing it at $698, their cost is no more than $300-$350. Maybe 73SS454 can correct me, but big markup there.

5)All cars have a 3% "holdback" on the car. If the Prius lists for $28,000, the dealer gets $840 credited back to the car once its sold. That's one main reason that dealers can sell "under invoice", and frequently do, particularly the big ticket cars. Someone buys a loaded up Escalade for $80K, the dealer gets $2400 on the car, so even at $1400 "udner invoice" they make $1000....

Bottom line, if YOU feel you got a good deal, and like your new car, that's all that matters. However, based on posts here and info you posted, I think you did very well. Used cars are BIG business these days. I get 3-4 unsolicted offers a month to buy my 2003 Accord 4 cylidner sedan with $143,000 miles on it. Two weeks ago I was offered $7500 cash!!!
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Old 04-02-2012, 10:16 AM   #31
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FWIW
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3)You have a Honda Element, which is a niche car whose owners are very loyal. Obviously they have a buyer for your car, who will buy nothing but Elements, so they can turn it around quick. USed cars that good gas mileage like the Element are in high demand. You could easily be getting $500-$1500 more than normal because of what I discussed above. It did not get good mileage at all, average 22-24 mpg, maybe 26-27 on the highway, part of my reason for getting rid of it. It was in good condition, but it had 124K miles and I assume it went to a wholesaler. It needed new tires, new front brakes and the airbag light was on - I am sure dealers pick up on those things. And I didn't think dealers kept 10 year old high mileage cars on their lots.

4)They ARE making money on the "rustproofing" package. If they are listing it at $698, their cost is no more than $300-$350. Maybe 73SS454 can correct me, but big markup there. In that they basically gave me the protection package for $0, I assume the markup was astronomical, as I mentioned earlier. I know all dealer adds have crazy margins so they can appear to deal with the customer...

5)All cars have a 3% "holdback" on the car. I'm aware of holdback and mentioned it earlier, I realize no dealer is going to sell me a new car at a loss...

Bottom line, if YOU feel you got a good deal, and like your new car, that's all that matters. However, based on posts here and info you posted, I think you did very well. Thanks, I think I'm going to like the new ride.
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Old 04-02-2012, 10:25 AM   #32
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3)You have a Honda Element, which is a niche car whose owners are very loyal. Obviously they have a buyer for your car, who will buy nothing but Elements, so they can turn it around quick. USed cars that good gas mileage like the Element are in high demand. You could easily be getting $500-$1500 more than normal because of what I discussed above.
Just a side note to the above comment, Elements don't get good mileage. 20-23 mpg highway is pretty mediocre. Many other SUVs are right in the same range. But regarding the loyal following, I wholeheartedly agree.

Plus, I think used cars are in higher demand than they used to be. The Cash for Clunkers program created a temporary dearth of used cars. Although the supply might be starting to recover now.
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Old 04-02-2012, 10:38 AM   #33
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FD, when a dealer adds rustproof, paint seal, fabric seal and vin etch to the MSRP they are just trying to change the game so it looks to the perspective buyer like they are getting more money off on the deal.

If a dealer sells the car as is and the F&I guy sells these products they usually make more money. Dealer owners are real cute, what they do is pay the installer of these products almost nothing and they charge the salespeople or F&I person a pack which is usually ridicules. So if the package I mentioned cost the dealer owner $100 they will charge the deal $600. So anyone getting paid on the deal is paid a % of anything over $600. So that's why the people selling these products have to charge crazy #'s, the dealer is lining his/her pockets and makes it very hard or the seller of the product to make a living.

I know no one cares about this but that's the truth.
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Old 04-02-2012, 10:41 AM   #34
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Midpack, I think you did well on your purchase. I had mentioned that the other day I was in a Toyota dealer for service on my Camry and 3 salespeople were pumping the phones trying to get buyers into the store on the 2011 Prius leftovers. I would think that there are a lot of left overs around and that Toyota is promoting, with a large rebate to the dealer the disposal of them. Good for you Midpack, you were in the right place at the right time.
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Old 04-02-2012, 10:42 AM   #35
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FD, when a dealer adds rustproof, paint seal, fabric seal and vin etch to the MSRP they are just trying to change the game so it looks to the perspective buyer like they are getting more money off on the deal.

If a dealer sells the car as is and the F&I guy sells these products they usually make more money. Dealer owners are real cute, what they do is pay the installer of these products almost nothing and they charge the salespeople or F&I person a pack which is usually ridicules. So if the package I mentioned cost the dealer owner $100 they will charge the deal $600. So anyone getting paid on the deal is paid a % of anything over $600. So that's why the people selling these products have to charge crazy #'s, the dealer is lining his/her pockets and makes it very hard or the seller of the product to make a living.

I know no one cares about this but that's the truth.
Why? It's good information that everyone should know before they go to buy a car, thanks!
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Old 04-02-2012, 04:16 PM   #36
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I bought the car a few hours ago, so it's a done deal now...
This thread is worthless without pictures!

So tell us... does it have a backup camera on the multi-function display? And does it have an AUX jack for an MP3 player?

And does it get all upset with you if you put 15 pounds of shopping on the front passenger seat but leave the belt unbuckled?
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Old 04-02-2012, 06:41 PM   #37
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This thread is worthless without pictures!

So tell us... does it have a backup camera on the multi-function display? And does it have an AUX jack for an MP3 player?

And does it get all upset with you if you put 15 pounds of shopping on the front passenger seat but leave the belt unbuckled?
Backup cam, iPod AUX and USB ports (it will display pics)! It has so many doo-dads (including Internet access), I may never figure them all out. Each day brings pleasant new surprises, and the occasional technical challenge which I somewhat enjoy...just figured out how to enable auto connect for my Bluetooth phone-audio/music-data a few hours ago.
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Old 04-02-2012, 08:15 PM   #38
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I think that the minute dealer invoices became public knowledge, and were used as a reference point, they became useless. If Ford sells the dealer a car for $10K, and gives them $5K of selling bonuses or advertising credits or building payments, how useful is the invoice amount? I'd be insulted if the salesman told me they were losing money because I was getting the car below invoice.

I admit I know nothing about this.
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Old 04-02-2012, 08:58 PM   #39
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I admit I know nothing about this.
I admit I know everything about this, but I'm trying to forget.
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Old 04-03-2012, 12:40 AM   #40
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And does it get all upset with you if you put 15 pounds of shopping on the front passenger seat but leave the belt unbuckled?
If your 15 pounds of shopping includes some of those hybrid tomatoes that can sense danger, and eject themselves before a crash, then you SHOULD leave the belt unbuckled! (Mr. Pither's Bicycling Tour of North Cornwall)

Midpack, enjoy your hybrid, whether car or tomato

I saw a newspaper ad about a month ago for 2011 new Prius'. I was really surprised any would be left this late. Maybe these units were so loaded with dealer packs that no one would buy them before.
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