New car, old car, same car?

[Nords]

The manager comes out and says that the Patriot Act requires it.  That even if we came in with a bag of cash, they would need our social security number to run against a database to verify that we were who we said we were.  At this point, having spent a half hour on this and knowing that my government is data mining my telephone records and reading my emails I said okay, and gave it to them. 

After a little internet searching I think I was within my rights not to give it to them.  I would like to hear from others on this.

It's part of the "know your customer" provision of the Patriot Act, although they seem to be implementing it in the most customer-offensive manner possible.  You gave them your ex-girlfriend's SSN, right?

As for being within your rights, you seem to have a choice between your desire for privacy and your desire to own a new car.  Maybe they were having second thoughts about the price you'd negotiated...

I'm curious about the medium of exchange-- was it a literally a pile of paper currency, or a cashier's check?  I wonder if they were concerned about being stuck with counterfeit bills or a cash transaction of more than $10K.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I've always been asked to fill in "just the top little part" of a credit form even when buying a car for cash, even before the patriot act.

The reason given is that they wanted to do a credit check to make sure I'm not a scumbag that writes bad checks...oh yeah, in my case it was always a personal check, not a wad of cash.

I didnt really see the harm in it, but then again, almost everything makes ya wanna think twice these days.

Anyone notice yet the little forms your dentist and doctor have you sign that lets you know that they share your medical records with the govt now?

What the f--k does the government need my dental records for?

By the way, according to experian, the dealer did in fact do a credit check on me.

 

[John Tuttle]

It's part of the "know your customer" provision of the Patriot Act, although they seem to be implementing it in the most customer-offensive manner possible. You gave them your ex-girlfriend's SSN, right?

Good idea, but no, my wife and I gave them the real numbers.

As for being within your rights, you seem to have a choice between your desire for privacy and your desire to own a new car. Maybe they were having second thoughts about the price you'd negotiated...

I had two other internet quotes for the same price and I briefly entertained the idea of going to one of the other dealers. My past history on things like that is I screw myself. I hope I got a decent deal. When the finance manger saw the price he said, "You must have beat them pretty hard, this is less than what I would have to pay." I imagine they say that to everybody to make them feel good.

I'm curious about the medium of exchange-- was it a literally a pile of paper currency, or a cashier's check? I wonder if they were concerned about being stuck with counterfeit bills or a cash transaction of more than $10K.

Personal check.

 

[73ss454]

I've always been asked to fill in "just the top little part" of a credit form even when buying a car for cash, even before the patriot act.

The reason given is that they wanted to do a credit check to make sure I'm not a scumbag that writes bad checks...oh yeah, in my case it was always a personal check, not a wad of cash.

I didnt really see the harm in it, but then again, almost everything makes ya wanna think twice these days.

Anyone notice yet the little forms your dentist and doctor have you sign that lets you know that they share your medical records with the govt now?

What the f--k does the government need my dental records for?

By the way, according to experian, the dealer did in fact do a credit check on me.

Just in case of overbite!

 

[samclem]

What the f--k does the government need my dental records for?

I know why they wanted mine when I was flying for them--it kinda sobered me up. In our initial flight physical they got a footprint, too.
"What do you need this for?"
"Sometimes all we get back is a boot with a foot in it."
Actually, military flying is not nearly as dangerous as lots of other pursuits.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Now i'm pissed AND alarmed...why is the government putting together a program to identify my body?!?



(I think i'm laughing)

 

[Nords]

When the finance manger saw the price he said, "You must have beat them pretty hard, this is less than what I would have to pay." I imagine they say that to everybody to make them feel good.

Yup. TH has mentioned that you only got a good deal when they give you the look that says they know you poisoned their dog but they can't prove it.

I know why they wanted mine when I was flying for them--it kinda sobered me up.  In our initial flight physical they got a footprint, too.
   "What do you need this for?"
   "Sometimes all we get back is a boot with a foot in it." 
Actually, military flying is not nearly as dangerous as lots of other pursuits. 

Let's not forget that our DNA is on file, too!

If I ever lose control of my mental faculties someday, I hope I start babbling all that highly classified & compartmented knowledge that I'm not supposed to remember that I forgot.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I know I have a good deal when I know what the invoice is and what all the rebates and incentives are, and i'm looking at $-55 as a net and seeing over $2000 below invoice. And the dealer is getting his profit from advertising fees paid by the manufacturer...and the $60 worth of gas he put in the car has eaten up a chunk of that.

Hell, I took six bottles of water out of his fridge on the way out for the ride home. That may have tipped the deal to the negative.

But yeah, they tell everyone they're "the toughest guy they ever negotiated with" or that they "got the best deal they've ever seen". Thats because the finance manager is about to make a pure profit pack by selling you an overpriced warranty, fabric protection, paint protection, an alarm, a lojack, etc...they want to soften you up and see if they can get you to spend based on your newfound largesse.

When they just glare at you, ya done good. When they dont really try to sell you anything else, you've done very well.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Well, we've had it almost a week and we're liking it. Only thing I miss about the expedition is being able to pop open the rear tailgate window to drop something in or take something out...pilot requires the whole liftgate be opened. And due to the slightly smaller rear cargo area, I had to toss some of my 'haul around stuff' out of the back to make enough room for groceries and other random purchases.

Its smooth, competent, and largely unexciting, which is pretty much all I ask of a car these days.

Got about 20MPG on the first tank, which was 2/3 highway driving at 75-80mph and the rest tooling around town at mostly 25-35mph. Not bad for a fairly good sized 8 person hauler. A little upgrade from the 12MPG I was getting on the Expedition. And I see from the window stickers that this is an Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle. I guess thats a good thing too.

Other than a little rubbing squeaky sound from the rubber on the drivers door, which a little armor all fixed, not a glitch or problem. Pleased with the "small conveniences" like a little drop down front door on the center console with a rubber cell phone pocket, a clip for a pen, and a charger at the base of the pocket for the cell charger. No more cords running from the dashboard and no more digging through 15lbs of junk in the console to find a pen.

Oh yeah, and according to my crack insurance company, the vehicle is also four wheel drive, although the window sticker says its not, and its suspiciously lacking any drive shaft or rear drive equipment. An extra couple of bucks a year until Honda finds some way to assure Farmers that it really, really is a 2WD. A few months back it was going through an assurance process between Lexus and Farmers to help Farmers understand that each and every Lexus ever made had anti-lock brakes, so yes they should give me the discount.

Good thing all these databases are so functionally accurate and filled with the right information. Or else I'd have free four wheel drive and a rare lexus made without ALB. Think of what that'd be worth on ebay!

 

[Nords]

Good thing all these databases are so functionally accurate and filled with the right information.  Or else I'd have free four wheel drive and a rare lexus made without ALB.  Think of what that'd be worth on ebay!

Funny you should mention that-- they probably got the vehicle info from your old PayPal account...

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

 

[JB]

Price was correct, $22,644, plus taxes, license and some ordinary DMV fees.

Wow! That's an incredible deal. I'm tempted to see what they'll offer me. But what I really want is lots of room and a small fuel efficient engine. Honda makes great cars. The new Fit is also tempting.... if it was only a little larger.

 

[REWahoo]

The new Fit is also tempting.... if it was only a little larger.

So...what you're saying is the new Fit doesn't?

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Wow! That's an incredible deal. I'm tempted to see what they'll offer me. But what I really want is lots of room and a small fuel efficient engine. Honda makes great cars. The new Fit is also tempting.... if it was only a little larger.

It is. I had to drive a ways to get it though. The local dealers didnt even respond when I asked if they'd match it.

Closest thing I could get to it pricewise in the same product category was a couple of larger fords and chevys, and the honda was still cheaper. After my expedition fell apart in its first 50k miles, I think i'll pass on fords and chevys from now on.

You might look at the CRV or the Element. Both have special pricing right now as well. I could have gotten an Element for about 5k cheaper. Only about 4mpg more fuel efficient per the fed #'s, and only a couple based on "real world" gas mileage reported by other owners. Might do a little better than that with the CRV.

Good prices on the toyota highlanders as well, and those can be had with a 4 banger, but again the mileage just isnt that much better.

 

[JB]

The highlander is nice but I don't like how the rear seats fold. I have my seats down 99% of the time. Flat folding seats provide for more room, and makes it easier for the dog to get in and out.

Do the Pilot's seats fold flat? From the pictures it looks like they do.

All the specs on the element are good but the fuel economy isn't that great and whenever I see someone driving one they look rediculous with 2 feet of clearance above their head.

 

[laurence]

Peeked into my friends Pilot, had the third row folded flat and they really disapear, didn't know there was a third row until she showed me!

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Yep, both the 3rd and 2nd seats go flatter'n a pancake.

In the rav4 we have, the second seats come out completely, leaving a pretty cavernous area with a flat floor and a low deck. Very nice for hauling dogs and stuff. Moved my washer and dryer in that instead of the expedition as the deck was so low I could just flip them up in there easy.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Post buying update...

We're pretty pleased with the Pilot. Good parts are 20-22MPG in mixed driving, smooth ride, overall pleasant driving experience, plenty of power when you want it, much lower entry than the expedition (which was more climbing into than getting into), and so far not a single quality problem or need for service. By this point the expedition had been in a half dozen times for everything from fit and finish problems to mechanical issues.

Downsides: I miss being able to pop open just the window in the expeditions tailgate. Having to open the entire rear gate every time i want to toss something in the back is a hassle. The shifter is fairly vague...I find myself having to make sure I get it in "D" and not "D3", or more embarrassing..."N". Early on I had a few twinges from getting the base LX model instead of the EX, but after all is said and done about all I really wish I had was the tinted rear privacy glass, and thats not worth the couple of grand. The base, no frills LX has everything we really need.

After selling the expedition and factoring that in, total cost out the door (taxes, license, fees) with a 7 year warranty on the Pilot was about $14k.

Even the insurance is a pretty good deal. I was paying about $550 a year for fairly strong coverage on the 7 year old expedition, and its only about $650 a year for the brand new pilot.

 

[laurence]

You know, I got an after market window tinting for $300 that everyone swore was factory. The place had 4 levels of tint material, the metallic stuff is awesome.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I thought about doing that, and I still might. In fact, I can get high end metallic film thats precut for the specific vehicle for about $75. I 'tinted' all my mcmansion windows with a nice gray metallic film to reduce the UV and increase heat rejection, so i'm really, really good at it. That worked out great by the way. The old non low-e glass sucked. You'd shrivel when you walked by a window if the sun was coming through.

The tricks are to get the windows good and clean, use plenty of slightly soapy water when applying, to do it out of the sun, and give it plenty of time to dry before exposing it to the sun. And using the good quality film that doesnt bubble and turn purple.

Really all I wanted to do was cut back on the sun that could potentially hit Gabe in the face and overheat his car seat. I found some cool spring-loaded 'shade's, sort of like the ones that you put up under your windshield. Couple of suction cups on them and a lot of flexibility. Combined with a regular baby roll up window shade, a pair of these give me very flexible and complete coverage, with a lot more shading than most window films will do. Looks just fine.

Besides, around here where it hits 100+ on a regular basis, the shaded glass just means its 9.5 minutes before the inside of the car is boiling hot instead of 7.5 minutes...

 

[laurence]

Did it yourself? Woah, I don't trust myself enough. But yeah, I did it so Tori wasn't hit in the face with full sun, and to give the air conditioner a fighting chance.


Dude, don't do the suction cup window thingies, for the love of God! If you're going to go there, just get the minivan!

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Never!

The stuff comes right off if you screw it up...theres a spray bottle of remover.

Its really, really not that hard to do. Biggest screwups people do is use cheap film, try to do it outside in the sun, and not getting all the bubbles out...just use plenty of water with a drop of soap in it and a good squeegee. Any persistent bubbles, tiny slit with the edge of a razor and work the air out through that.

 

[Nords]

Its really, really not that hard to do.

Window film is way better than it used to be. That's how ours was installed, and if we do any more I'm just buying our own for DIY.

But the cost of having someone do it isn't very much. Most of it's the hassle factor of finding someone who'll actually come to your house when they claim they'll arrive.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Prices were about 350-500 installed with decent film vs 75 to DIY.

For a guy that spends his time scanning the sidewalk for loose change, thats a big difference!

 

[Nords]

For a guy that spends his time scanning the sidewalk for loose change, thats a big difference!

I'm way behind on wasting money. I need to develop that skill...