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New energy policy for America.
Old 03-08-2008, 04:53 PM   #1
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New energy policy for America.

Build 3 Nuclear Power plants per state. It would revive the economy, it would put the arabs in Opec on notice that we here in the states will have as much electric power as we need. Let the Chinese buy the stinkin oil!

Heck the arabs were sided with the Nazis durig WWII

the country and people that helped americans the SERBS have been given the shaft by the americans now, and china gets most favored trade status, they are awful when it comes to human rights.
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Old 03-08-2008, 05:14 PM   #2
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I agree. It takes a long time to build a power plant, so they better get started right now. They can even put one in my backyard.
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Old 03-08-2008, 05:17 PM   #3
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It really is about time we do something here! It's absurd that we are so willing to continue the reliance on foreign oil!
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Old 03-08-2008, 05:30 PM   #4
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Nuclear, Coal, Coal Gasification, Ethanol, and Bio-Diesel .

All are viable intermediate term solutions and in the strategic and economic interest of the country to develop.

I would rather spend my $ putting Americans to work than send the money to our enemies.

We might as well face it... most of the rest of the world is jealous and hates us. Our only real allies are the UK and the other former British colonies.
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Old 03-08-2008, 07:05 PM   #5
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Seriously can you imagine what the saudis and the traders in oil would do the day the president gives a speech outlining the building of those nuke plants the telling the world we would be weaning America from the Arab Opec oil JONES we have!!
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Old 03-08-2008, 09:25 PM   #6
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Just making the announcement would drop oil by 6-8% (on the day of the annoucement)
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Old 03-08-2008, 10:47 PM   #7
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I've worked in electric power generation for 29 years and I have to agree that we need to free ourselves from the oil dependence by going with nuclear plants. "All we are saying is give nukes a chance"
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Old 03-08-2008, 11:02 PM   #8
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Interesting: the "Gaia" theory guy is pro-nuke.

'Enjoy life while you can' | Environment | The Guardian

Do Cheney and GW not have brokers who know how to short?
(no more hand-holding with Prince Bandar, tho'...)
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Old 03-09-2008, 06:57 AM   #9
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I am all for energy independence. This problem has haunted us for the last 35 years. Time to act.
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Old 03-09-2008, 07:37 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chinaco View Post
Nuclear, Coal, Coal Gasification, Ethanol, and Bio-Diesel .

All are viable intermediate term solutions and in the strategic and economic interest of the country to develop.

I would rather spend my $ putting Americans to work than send the money to our enemies.

We might as well face it... most of the rest of the world is jealous and hates us. Our only real allies are the UK and the other former British colonies.
Ethanol will bankrupt the American consumer........and the crappy E-85 will ruin our engines.......that's NOT the answer I was looking for..........
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Old 03-09-2008, 08:01 AM   #11
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This is one of the few areas I join the loyal opposition on. We should have been doing this since the 70s energy crisis. We could already be energy independent. Unfortunately, I don't see any mainstream interest in it even though it is an order of magnitude more attuned to national security than shoe searches at the airport..
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Old 03-09-2008, 08:14 AM   #12
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Ethanol will bankrupt the American consumer........and the crappy E-85 will ruin our engines.......that's NOT the answer I was looking for..........

I told you we are thinking the same here!!!

E85 what a dumbarse product!! Corn should be used to feed HUMANS! NOT combustion engines!

What probably will happen If McCain is elected he would institute a draft put 5 million men in uniform and tell the saudis that we are going to take the oil. If Obama is elected we will be sitting in gasoline lines after price controls are instituted on gasoline. If Clinton is elected the price of gasoline will hit 8+ a gallon and we will settle into a real funk..

There are no answers by our politicians, no vision. Get a real good high mileage vehicle, move closer to your job if you need one, get rid of the dumb NATURAL GAS FIREPLACE put in a wood stove if you live in a cold climate, grow veggies maybe even raise some chickens.

Its all good gang all good. Oh and get some candles for light at night when the time comes that we don't have enough electricity.

The country is broken and we will be going backwards in living standards sooner than later.
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Old 03-09-2008, 08:54 AM   #13
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There are no answers by our politicians, no vision. .
The answers and vision lie within the capital markets! The politicians only get in the way. Nothing wrong with a little oversight but blocking progress in this area really is unconscionable.
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Old 03-09-2008, 09:11 AM   #14
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It amazes me that energy independence isn't a higher priority for our country. Other countries are determining the price of our energy. We are also funding our enemies in some cases.

IMHO, we should be persuing multiple sources of energy, nuclear, cleaner coal, wind, solar, etc. more that we are now. Should also be working to be more efficient.
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Old 03-09-2008, 09:57 AM   #15
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I'll chime in too... In addition to other non-fossil fuel technologies already mentioned, solar (especially solar thermal) should be emphasized. Just doing a back of the envelope number crunching using Arizona to become 'Persian Gulf' of solar energy - CNN.com as the example:

The $1B solar thermal plant in that article will generate electricity for 70,000 households. Assuming there're roughly 100,000,000 households in US, at that cost it'd take 1,400 * $1B = $1.4 trillion to get all of those households to be switched entirely to solar thermal electricity. Obviously that's oversiplifying things -- not every state is blessed with Arizona's abundance of sun and I believe the $1B cost of this plant includes considerable subsidies. But on the other hand, the economies of scale and improvements in technology would make this approach more affordable per watt if it were to be scaled at national level.

$1.4 trillion is A LOT of money but considering that the Iraq war alone already cost $500B by official estimates and (a lot more by unofficial estimates), I'd say $1.4 trillion spent entirely in US on solar termal and, in parallel, a significant push for plug-in hybrids is not a terribly high price to pay. In addition to making US permanently energy independent it would also partially or completely solve most of our other issues: foreign policy (Russia, Iran, Venezuela, and others will no longer be able to use oil/gas for political leverage), trade deficit/weak dollar (over 30% of trade deficit is due to petroleum imports), inflation (in energy as well as in food -- corn can go back to being a food instead of a fuel), not to mention the climate change! And of course there's no need to immediately replace all of the existing electricity generation with solar thermal -- simply ensuring that all or most of new capacity is solar/renewable and slow phase-out of old fossil-fuel based capacity will make a huge difference.

Again, I don't profess to appreciate all the difficulties involved in putting something like this plan into action but I refuse to believe that they are so great as to make it unworkable. It'd be an effort on par with the Iraq war in terms of costs but with many fewer deaths and many more benefits.
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Old 03-09-2008, 10:04 AM   #16
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Heck the arabs were sided with the Nazis durig WWII

Now.... this is a new one on me.... an opening post and the NAZIS all in one...
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Old 03-09-2008, 10:26 AM   #17
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I had a chemist friend of mins explain the ethanol production process in layman's terms for me.............

Turns out you STILL need a BOATLOAD of energy to break down the corn, and a BOATLOAD of energy to move the ethanol to a central area, more energy to ship it to the terminal, and MORE energy to get it to the service station...........

How is THAT doing us any good? Plus, I have heard NOONE talk about the fact that corn STEALS nitrogen from the soil, and WHY NOW would any farmer follow previous protocols and stagger the corn with soybeans to protect the soil? Dust Bowl anyone??
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Old 03-09-2008, 10:41 AM   #18
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I'll chime in too... In addition to other non-fossil fuel technologies already mentioned, solar (especially solar thermal) should be emphasized. Just doing a back of the envelope number crunching using Arizona to become 'Persian Gulf' of solar energy - CNN.com as the example:

The $1B solar thermal plant in that article will generate electricity for 70,000 households. Assuming there're roughly 100,000,000 households in US, at that cost it'd take 1,400 * $1B = $1.4 trillion to get all of those households to be switched entirely to solar thermal electricity. Obviously that's oversiplifying things -- not every state is blessed with Arizona's abundance of sun and I believe the $1B cost of this plant includes considerable subsidies. But on the other hand, the economies of scale and improvements in technology would make this approach more affordable per watt if it were to be scaled at national level.

$1.4 trillion is A LOT of money but considering that the Iraq war alone already cost $500B by official estimates and (a lot more by unofficial estimates), I'd say $1.4 trillion spent entirely in US on solar termal and, in parallel, a significant push for plug-in hybrids is not a terribly high price to pay. In addition to making US permanently energy independent it would also partially or completely solve most of our other issues: foreign policy (Russia, Iran, Venezuela, and others will no longer be able to use oil/gas for political leverage), trade deficit/weak dollar (over 30% of trade deficit is due to petroleum imports), inflation (in energy as well as in food -- corn can go back to being a food instead of a fuel), not to mention the climate change! And of course there's no need to immediately replace all of the existing electricity generation with solar thermal -- simply ensuring that all or most of new capacity is solar/renewable and slow phase-out of old fossil-fuel based capacity will make a huge difference.

Again, I don't profess to appreciate all the difficulties involved in putting something like this plan into action but I refuse to believe that they are so great as to make it unworkable. It'd be an effort on par with the Iraq war in terms of costs but with many fewer deaths and many more benefits.

That is the real problem here. The Iraq war.Man what a darn embarrassment! What a lost possiblilty. the war industry wins again. the american people lose on all fronts. Heck the world is losing.
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Old 03-09-2008, 10:47 AM   #19
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That is the real problem here. The Iraq war.Man what a darn embarrassment! What a lost possiblilty. the war industry wins again. the american people lose on all fronts. Heck the world is losing.
This issue very much pre-dates the Iraq war!
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Old 03-09-2008, 11:11 AM   #20
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I had a chemist friend of mins explain the ethanol production process in layman's terms for me.............

Turns out you STILL need a BOATLOAD of energy to break down the corn, and a BOATLOAD of energy to move the ethanol to a central area, more energy to ship it to the terminal, and MORE energy to get it to the service station...........

How is THAT doing us any good? Plus, I have heard NOONE talk about the fact that corn STEALS nitrogen from the soil, and WHY NOW would any farmer follow previous protocols and stagger the corn with soybeans to protect the soil? Dust Bowl anyone??
Ethanol can be produced from material other than corn and soybeans.

According to DOE switch grass is viable. Biofuels from Switchgrass: Greener Energy Pastures

Ethanol is a viable product because it can work with our current technology. It can be mixed with gasoline. We can produce enough of it help offset oil consumption. We do not have to be 100% ethanol.

E85 engines work fine. It is proven.

Pipelines are a bit of an issue (corrosion). But there is nothing to keep the ethanol plants from being located near regional distribution centers and mixed with gasoline more locally.

Something else that would help with the final product is for the US legislature to pass a bill that sets a nation-wide standard for a Gasoline standard instead of all the the different variations that states require.

We need to consider that there are certain intermediate term solutions and perhaps other long-term solutions.

We will be dependent of Oil for automobiles for the rest of our lives. But if we can reduce our purchases to Canada, US owned, and Mexico (possible a couple other friendly trading partners) we will be much better off.

Combine that with the techniques that are beginning to be employed with combustion engines and we can reduce our dependence.

As far as power plants go... There is little reason to use fuel oil. Other energy sources are available (coal and nuclear).
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