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Re: New(er) Car
Old 07-14-2005, 12:19 PM   #21
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Re: New(er) Car

Absolutely. I love my '96 Camry.
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Re: New(er) Car
Old 07-14-2005, 12:53 PM   #22
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Re: New(er) Car

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay_Gatsby
I don't want to get too much into whether buying the type of car I'm contemplating reflects good or bad values.* Then again, perhaps that's the point Nords was trying to raise, namely, good value for the money (or maybe not )
No, no tree huggers here. Just a value shopper.

A friend of ours works very hard at his carpet-cleaning business and lives very simply-- except for the money that he spends on his high-end car hobby. After buying a home out of foreclosure (trashed by its tenants) he completely rehabbed the place and celebrated by "giving" himself a Lotus Triumph.

Last year one of his crews had trouble on the job site (a restaurant) and asked him to stop by. He was on his way to a car-club event and diverted. When he drove up in the Triumph, the restaurant owner saw the car and made the snap decision that he was paying too much for his carpet service... now he drives his pickup truck or parks the Triumph and takes a cab.

So there's a lot to be said for wearing your values on the outside and your wealth on the inside.

As for the car, we'd never buy from a dealer again. Classified ads, CARFAX, kbb.com, edmunds.com, & Consumer Reports' Used Car Guide do it for us. Toyota Camry, Nissans, or Hondas.

But then we spent two hours yesterday picking through a junkyard for an Altima muffler (couldn't break the rusty nuts) and miscellaneous Taurus parts (complete success!). eBay has one good-looking Altima muffler on sale but sellers using "United States only" and "UPS ground" in the same paragraph usually aren't shipping to Hawaii. So today I think I'm gonna phone around to pay (*choke*) actual retail for a muffler.

Unless I get sidetracked by this local FreeCycle poster trying to get rid of a 25 cu ft Whirlpool fridge...
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Re: New(er) Car
Old 07-17-2005, 09:49 PM   #23
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Re: New(er) Car

I think it's crazy to buy from a dealer, new or used, unless you absolutely have to have precisely the model that's on a particular dealer's lot.* Dealers are in business to make a profit, and they won't be in business long if they're not successful at doing so.*

Individuals, on the other hand, typically don't have the skills or experience at selling used cars to really shaft you.* In fact, there's at least a chance that you'll get the better end of the bargain when you buy from an individual.* With a dealer, you can virtually guarantee you won't.

You say you get "reconditioning" and an "inspection" from a dealer, and that justifies the premium you pay them?* Simply get a mechanic to inspect before you buy to make sure it's a worthy vehicle.* Then get the thing professionally detailed.* It's amazing what a huge difference that makes.
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Re: New(er) Car
Old 07-17-2005, 11:05 PM   #24
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Re: New(er) Car

Its my understanding from my older son who sold cars for a while that dealers generally make more money selling used cars than new cars. If you pick a low demand model (Pontiac Aztec?}you can get it very near dealer cost. They want to move cars to get sales volume discounts and they can maybe get more from the next -pidgeon- customer and they make money in the service department. I bought two new cars which had 30% off MSRP, this is below what Consumer Reports and Kelly Blue Book say is the actual dealer cost including holdbacks and promotions.
Now if you want a popular model, forget it.
I did just see a GT40 at the local Ford dealer, marked up from $150K to $300K and he will probably get that price.
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Re: New(er) Car
Old 07-18-2005, 08:57 AM   #25
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Re: New(er) Car

Quote:
Originally Posted by yakers
Its my understanding from my older son who sold cars for a while that dealers generally make more money selling used cars than new cars. If you pick a low demand model (Pontiac Aztec?}you can get it very near dealer cost. They want to move cars to get sales volume discounts and they can maybe get more from the next -pidgeon- customer and they make money in the service department. I bought two new cars which had 30% off MSRP, this is below what Consumer Reports and Kelly Blue Book say is the actual dealer cost including holdbacks and promotions.
Now if you want a popular model, forget it.
I did just see a GT40 at the local Ford dealer, marked up from $150K to $300K and he will probably get that price.
Taking this concept (dealers making more on used cars), I knew 2 guys
who owned those "No cash, no credit, we don't care/buy here-pay here"
operations. They both made so much money they hardly knew what to do with
it. I discovered this too late in life to try it. Another real good idea
is "payday" loans or cash stores. Probably overdone now, and surely
will be regulated to death eventually as the politicians think it's taking
advantage of "po folks".

JG
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Re: New(er) Car
Old 07-18-2005, 09:05 AM   #26
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Re: New(er) Car

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLC Tortfeasor
I think it's crazy to buy from a dealer, new or used, unless you absolutely have to have precisely the model that's on a particular dealer's lot.* Dealers are in business to make a profit, and they won't be in business long if they're not successful at doing so.*

Individuals, on the other hand, typically don't have the skills or experience at selling used cars to really shaft you.* In fact, there's at least a chance that you'll get the better end of the bargain when you buy from an individual.* With a dealer, you can virtually guarantee you won't.

You say you get "reconditioning" and an "inspection" from a dealer, and that justifies the premium you pay them?* Simply get a mechanic to inspect before you buy to make sure it's a worthy vehicle.* Then get the thing professionally detailed.* It's amazing what a huge difference that makes.
Well "crazy" may be a bit strong. I have owned a lot of vehicles.
Looking back, I don't see any difference (This is just a feeling) between
dealer bought and private sales, nor between having them inspected
before purchase and not. It's kind of a big crap shoot after you agree
on the price. Just my 2 cents.

JG
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Re: New(er) Car
Old 07-18-2005, 11:33 AM   #27
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Re: New(er) Car

Quote:
Originally Posted by MRGALT2U
Well "crazy" may be a bit strong.* I have owned* a lot of vehicles.
Looking back, I don't see any difference (This is just a feeling) between
dealer bought and private sales, nor between having them inspected
before purchase and not.* It's kind of a big crap shoot after you agree
on the price.* Just my 2 cents.

JG
The key is finding a good mechanic that has the skills to inspect a used car from stem to stern. Throw in the fee you pay the mechanic, along with the inconvenience to the seller in regards to the inspection (the seller may need the car to get to work), along with your time to deal with the whole thing, the value of such lost time and inconvenience to you may outweigh the profit you pay to a reputable dealer for a car that you know has been inspected (and perhaps repaired as necessary to make it saleable).
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Re: New(er) Car
Old 07-18-2005, 11:45 AM   #28
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Re: New(er) Car

I've had my mechanic do it for $100. Triple A Diagnostic did another car for me. No problem. I wouldn't do it any other way. A seller who won't do this is not a motivated seller- and who wants to mess with a non-motivated seller?
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Re: New(er) Car
Old 07-19-2005, 06:00 PM   #29
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Re: New(er) Car

Quote:
Originally Posted by MRGALT2U
Taking this concept (dealers making more on used cars), I knew 2 guys
who owned those "No cash, no credit, we don't care/buy here-pay here"
operations.* They both made so much money they hardly knew what to do with
it.* I discovered this too late in life to try it.* Another real good idea
is "payday" loans or cash stores.* Probably overdone now, and surely
will be regulated to death eventually as the politicians think it's taking
advantage of "po folks".

JG
I hear what you're saying.* I know of similar stories.

These places are so offensive to those with a little education, but for the huge (and growing) underclass of people with low or no financial savvy, they're shining beacons of hope.* It really raises that fascinating question of how much government should regulate the otherwise free market to protect people from their own poor choices.

As a person who just scored an 18 on our little red/blue test, I'm favor of a little more regulation.* If I polled the rest of you, would your opinions likewise be consistent with your numerical scores?
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Re: New(er) Car
Old 07-19-2005, 07:08 PM   #30
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Re: New(er) Car

Loved our 78 Civic - was in demand in 1981 when sold (not a trade-in) to a dealer for $600 less than it cost. (Needed more room for expanding family - unfortunate replacement was a Plymouth Reliant wagon that Lee Iacocca convinced me to buy (appealed to my patriotism) - later got a horrible trade-in. Lee's back on TV I see - you will do well to ignore him.

Toyota Prius is the hot hybrid, but I don't hear as much about Honda's Civic Hybrid.
Any experiences with ?
Want to downsize my car as well as my home and body.

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Re: New(er) Car
Old 07-19-2005, 07:23 PM   #31
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Re: New(er) Car

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanTien
Loved our 78 Civic - was in demand in 1981 when sold (not a trade-in) to a dealer for $600 less than it cost. (Needed more room for expanding family - unfortunate replacement was a Plymouth Reliant wagon* that Lee Iacocca convinced me to buy (appealed to my patriotism) - later got a horrible trade-in. Lee's back on TV I see - you will do well to ignore him.* *

Toyota Prius is the hot hybrid, but I don't hear as much about Honda's Civic Hybrid.
Any experiences with ?
Want to downsize my car as well as my home and body.

Of all my vehicles, I would rate the Mazda Miata number One.
I owned 2. Cheap to buy. Cheap to run. Fun to drive.
What's not to like? If price to buy is ignored, then it would be
Cadillac Sevilles by a mile.

JG
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Re: New(er) Car
Old 07-19-2005, 10:09 PM   #32
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Re: New(er) Car

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanTien
Loved our 78 Civic - was in demand in 1981 when sold (not a trade-in) to a dealer for $600 less than it cost. (Needed more room for expanding family - unfortunate replacement was a Plymouth Reliant wagon that Lee Iacocca convinced me to buy (appealed to my patriotism) - later got a horrible trade-in. Lee's back on TV I see - you will do well to ignore him.

Toyota Prius is the hot hybrid, but I don't hear as much about Honda's Civic Hybrid.
Any experiences with ?
Want to downsize my car as well as my home and body.

I've read that the reason prius causes such a stir compared to the civic is that it instantly announces itself as a hybrid, where only the small badge on the back of the civic lets you know it's any different from all the others. Prius pulls away from the curb silently (electric only) where civic has the motor running (electric assist), all that =sex appeal for prius. The civic hybrid gets high marks and actually seems to be slightly more reliable (prius has a nagging engine stall problem).

My aunt bought the Accord hybrid, and while the gas mileage is o.k., it's not nearly what was promised.
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Re: New(er) Car
Old 07-19-2005, 11:06 PM   #33
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Re: New(er) Car

[Would you feel you were getting good value by paying a guy who wears expensive suits?*
During 25 years at one of the premier law firms in my state, I drove in serial order: Accord, Civic, Saturn, Suburu, Toyota Prius. My wife has a 2002 Lexus RX300: just recognized as the most reliable used car available presently.
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Re: New(er) Car
Old 07-19-2005, 11:14 PM   #34
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Re: New(er) Car

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence
I've read that the reason prius causes such a stir compared to the civic is that it instantly announces itself as a hybrid, where only the small badge on the back of the civic lets you know it's any different from all the others.* Prius pulls away from the curb silently (electric only) where civic has the motor running (electric assist), all that =sex appeal for prius.* The civic hybrid gets high marks and actually seems to be slightly more reliable (prius has a nagging engine stall problem).

Windsurf:
Prius was designed bumper to bumper as a hybrid vs. Civic's retrofit;* there is a significant difference in the technology.* There is no statistically significant "stall problem." Prius was just recognized in Consumer reports recent auto issue as nearly the highest in owner satisfaction.* I have 42k miles on mine now.* Averaging over 50 mpg in the warm weather and use it in place of my wife's suv for all the hour or longer trips. As to the "stir," most of the people I know who got the Prius enjoy the idea of near zero emissions and using a hell of a lot less foreign oil.* I am sure there are people who enjoy the irony of "announcing" that they are driving a nerd car.* Actually, the car is quite quick and has the same interior space as a Camry.
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Re: New(er) Car
Old 07-21-2005, 07:58 AM   #35
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Re: New(er) Car

Quote:
Originally Posted by windsurf
During 25 years at one of the premier law firms in my state, I drove in serial order: Accord, Civic, Saturn, Suburu, Toyota Prius.* My wife has a 2002 Lexus RX300: just recognized as the most reliable used car available presently.*
Were any of the foregoing vehicles bought new? That would make a difference in regards to image. A new Honda beats a 5+ year old Honda hands down in the image department.
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