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Old 08-09-2014, 02:43 PM   #41
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I have to say I love the smart fob.

I keep it in my pocket. I walk up to the car, touch the door handle, it unlocks as I open the door. I press the start/stop button and drive off.

When I reach my destination I press the start/stop button to turn off the car. After I close the door I touch the handle as I leave and it locks.

I can't see getting a new car without this, it's great.

+1!
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Old 08-09-2014, 02:44 PM   #42
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But that has nothing to do with the absolutely bone-headed, no advantage, no effect on anything else decision to take a common camera icon, and change it from the ubiquitous 'tap to select', to 'hold, drag/slide this icon to a tiny little triangle to make it the active mode'.
I hear you! Just last week I had to go online to figure out how to get my iPhone to take a video. It was not obvious that I had to slide the camera from one mode to another. Quite frustrating to say the least.
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Old 08-09-2014, 03:00 PM   #43
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I've been staring at the camera app and just can't figure out what you are talking about. Can you give a better hint? Not that Apple has flawless UIs, Apple makes mistakes too. I just can't figure out what you are talking about...
OS 7.1.2 on a model MD510LL/A (it's a few years old I think - the larger iPad).

I choose the default camera app - on the right lower side it looks like (the asterisk is more of a little dot, I thought it was a triangle when I was going by memory):

Code:
<SHUTTER BUTTON>


   VIDEO

*  PHOTO

   SQUARE
So I want to switch to "VIDEO", I figure, like every other touch screen app since always, I tap ""VIDEO". But noooooooooo.

You touch and hold VIDEO, and then slide VIDEO down to where the little dot is (the dot does not move).

Code:
<SHUTTER BUTTON>




*  VIDEO

   PHOTO

   SQUARE
On top of that, it seems really unresponsive, so even that is rather hit and miss. I have not figured out if there is some magic delay, but I can't make it work very consistently.

And that's not all folks! Hey, maybe I want to switch right from VIDEO to SQUARE (or vice-versa). I mean, that could happen, right? And tapping the icon would do that, right? But noooooo, they made it 'better' - it appears to me the only way to get from VIDEO to SQUARE or back, is a multi-step process.

1) Drag VIDEO UP to position PHOTO at the dot.

2) Let GO of VIDEO.

3) Drag VIDEO (or PHOTO) UP to position SQUARE at the dot.

I could not manage to get this to move in one step.

OK, first world problem, I know. But there simply is no excuse for taking standard interactions and making them non-standard AND worse. And again, no 'hinting' to indicate this is different from standard.

Playing with it a bit more, it seems a little more responsive if I just swipe at it, rather than hold&drag - but not by much, and that fast action makes me feel like I might hit some other control.

For me, the really sad part is that some engineer spent time on this, rather than making actual improvements to the product. It's not like it's perfect and they've run out of things to do. There is an opportunity cost.


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Old 08-09-2014, 03:40 PM   #44
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I choose the default camera app - on the right lower side it looks like (the asterisk is more of a little dot, I thought it was a triangle when I was going by memory):

Code:
<SHUTTER BUTTON>


   VIDEO

*  PHOTO

   SQUARE
So I want to switch to "VIDEO", I figure, like every other touch screen app since always, I tap ""VIDEO". But noooooooooo.

You touch and hold VIDEO, and then slide VIDEO down to where the little dot is (the dot does not move).
That's a custom UIPickerView. MOST UIPickerViews that people run across are the ones like Date/Time pickers where you see the chosen value between two lines, like a 'window' and roll the values up or down to pick the one you want.

This one needed a 'live' background, as in some modes the live video from the camera can be seen through it. That meant someone had to build a custom version (subclass for Obj-C folks). The big UI Oops here was in not providing the UIPickerView 'window', heavy selected text, and perspective cues.

The result is a picker that behaves like a UIPickerView, but looks more like a selection list.

Bad programmer! No biscuit. (bug filed)

https://developer.apple.com/library/.../Controls.html
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Old 08-09-2014, 03:53 PM   #45
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OK, gotcha. Thanks.

Yeah the custom "dial" (UIPickerView as Mike said).

Another "aha" - you are looking at your iPad, I'm looking at the phone. The iPad UI is more broken than the UI on the phone. There is some subtle shading that make it look a little like a cylinder that spins (fads out on the edges). I got that right away, but I could definitely see how the iPad version is more confusing.
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Old 08-09-2014, 04:26 PM   #46
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The only time I use key fob is when the door lock is frozen over with ice. This in spite of generous dose of graphite lube in the lock.

Then hope the fob will actually work.

Saves squattin' next to the door and blowing hot air into lock while gently freezing my butt off in the process.
You're supposed to pee on it. Urban myth?
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Old 08-09-2014, 06:27 PM   #47
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You're supposed to pee on it. Urban myth?
By all means, go for it. Let us know how it works out.
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Old 08-09-2014, 06:52 PM   #48
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If I take the key (which is attached to the fob & can't be removed) out of the ignition, and fail to put it in my purse, and then lock the door, I'm locked out. The key is the fob, and the fob is the key.

Another example, last fall we were tailgating (in my old car) & got ready to walk to the stadium. DH ASSumed I was done, and locked the car using the switch on the doors and shut the door he was using. My purse was still in the car, with my keys. Luckily, I had that magnetic hide a key thing under my car so there was no murder.
Oh, I get it now! Thanks. My car is just set up a little differently because it has a pushbutton ignition. So, I don't ever take the key fob out of my purse at all. Sounds like you found a good solution!

I sure hope that cars future cars become simpler. I think it is already hard to find a new car that isn't stuffed to the gills with so much electronics that many of us neither need nor want.
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Old 08-09-2014, 07:17 PM   #49
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You're supposed to pee on it. Urban myth?
Quote:
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By all means, go for it. Let us know how it works out.

Keep in mind the 'tongue stuck to the flag-pole' story. Ouchhhh!!!!!!

-ERD50
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Old 08-09-2014, 07:26 PM   #50
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...........So thanks for re-affirming that females do have a sense of humor - I absolutely laughed out loud at that one!

And my apologies to anyone offended by my earlier post, that I thought included enough context to be deemed in-offensive. Awww, on second thought - just grow a pair!
('Grow a pair' - get it? - it's a gender joke! Awww, never mind! ) Now what was I saying about 'stop digging'? -ERD50
Maybe you could get a purse to carry your fob, like W2R. Just grow a pair!
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Old 08-09-2014, 09:19 PM   #51
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Keys??
That is so cute

My key fob stays in my pocket. As I approach the car door the handles extend.
When I sit down and place my foot on the brake, as long as I have the key fob, the car starts, simple and elegant.
The car won't lock if the fob is inside.
When carrying things to the car, I don't have to fish out a key.
If I do somehow get locked out, I'll open the car with my app (no fees for this). Or, my wife could open it with her app if my app wasn't working.

I agree with the statement that the biggest downside to them is the cost.
And the fact that fobs work differently in different cars can be an issue, for people that often use different cars. There are, however, lots of aspects of cars that vary from brand to brand.

I find the convenience, far outweighs the rare cost of replacing one.
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Old 08-09-2014, 09:36 PM   #52
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Keys??
That is so cute

My key fob stays in my pocket. As I approach the car door the handles extend.
When I sit down and place my foot on the brake, as long as I have the key fob, the car starts, simple and elegant.
The car won't lock if the fob is inside.
Braggart!

How many miles do you have on your Tesla? Any further thoughts on it?
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Old 08-09-2014, 10:12 PM   #53
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Braggart!

How many miles do you have on your Tesla? Any further thoughts on it?
LOL!

Actually, our Prius also had a "smart key" fob, so I have been spoiled by not needing a key for quite a few years.

As for the Tesla, we are a bit over 39,000 miles. I'm loving every minute of it
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Old 08-10-2014, 12:01 AM   #54
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You're supposed to pee on it. Urban myth?
Sounds more like a rural myth to me.

WRT the standards issue, the problem is that in order to have the standard, a Standards Committee must be formed with representatives from all involved parties. Then new parties come along before anything is done, and you have to start all over. I've sat on a few of these committees, and I'm here to tell you it's nearly impossible to get the various companies and gov't organizations to agree to what kind of bagels to get, much less actually determine anything important. Meanwhile each new player in whatever particular field you're meeting about comes in with their own "standard", and pretty soon you've got all the standards you could possibly want. Like the old saying goes, "the nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them".
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Old 08-10-2014, 09:18 AM   #55
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For the woman who has nearly everything, a Gucci key fob.
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Old 08-10-2014, 05:40 PM   #56
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For the woman who has nearly everything, a Gucci key fob.
And such a deal at only $200! Gucci Mini Boston Bag Key Fob | Overstock.com Shopping - Top Rated Gucci Designer Keyrings
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Old 08-10-2014, 06:24 PM   #57
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That's a custom UIPickerView. MOST UIPickerViews that people run across are the ones like Date/Time pickers where you see the chosen value between two lines, like a 'window' and roll the values up or down to pick the one you want.

This one needed a 'live' background, as in some modes the live video from the camera can be seen through it. That meant someone had to build a custom version (subclass for Obj-C folks). The big UI Oops here was in not providing the UIPickerView 'window', heavy selected text, and perspective cues.

The result is a picker that behaves like a UIPickerView, but looks more like a selection list.

Bad programmer! No biscuit. (bug filed)

https://developer.apple.com/library/.../Controls.html
Thanks for the technical background, I figured you knew a thing or three about this stuff .

That (the bolded part) is what I was afraid of - someone went to extra effort to make it worse! Still, the review process should have caught it, and sent that programmer back for 're-programming' (deeeze izzzz not how vee doooo zzingzzzz!).

And thanks for that developer's link - I just skimmed it, but it's kind of eye-opening to see just how many different ways we interact with these things. And if it is done 'right' (somewhat subjective - but there are some objective measures I'm sure), we just do it w/o hardly thinking about it. I'll admit that some of those date-wheel thingies might have me pause for a fraction of second, wondering if I grab it and slide it, or should I look for some up/down buttons. But then you get it, and it's all OK.

If anyone wants to bring up the 'Save As' fiasco (that's being polite - substitute any f-word foul-up phrase you prefer), well, that should be a thread of it's own!


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Old 08-10-2014, 08:39 PM   #58
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Back to the OP, we have a 2002 VW Beetle TDI that has a key fob similar to the one pictured. We have two keys (plus a non-fob spare), and I'm pleased to announce that one of them still works remotely. That's pretty impressive, almost 13 years on a single battery. I haven't looked into how much it would cost to replace it, but I'm betting more than I want to pay. But 13 years is pretty good.
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Old 08-11-2014, 08:19 AM   #59
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Wow, I had no idea so many people hid spare keys somewhere on the exterior of their vehicles! I've never done that, and have never needed to. Also, I think many of the complaints about these fobs are missing the point of the fob. "They cost too much to replace when it drops down the sewer grate." It won't drop down the sewer grate because unlike conventional keys, you never even need to take it out of your purse/pocket. "It's too big to hide a spare on the outside of my car in case I lock my keys inside." You won't lock your keys inside because the vehicle will refuse to lock with the fob inside.

Many of these complaints seem to be attempts to adapt old tactics to new technology, where the problems those tactics sought to solve no longer even exist anymore.
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Old 08-11-2014, 08:32 AM   #60
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... Also, I think many of the complaints about these fobs are missing the point of the fob. "They cost too much to replace when it drops down the sewer grate." It won't drop down the sewer grate because unlike conventional keys, you never even need to take it out of your purse/pocket. ....
Never say 'never'. OK, the fob may reduce the number of times you have it out of your pocket/purse, but it sure doesn't eliminate it.

I may want to switch off driving with DW, so when we get out of the car, I hand her the fob. They can still get damaged/lost, and a traditional spare is a lot more convenient and cheaper than a locksmith.

How does that "can't lock the fob in the car" work? If I'm parked in a lot, maybe waiting for DW to run in and do some shopping, and a suspicious looking character is walking towards the car, are you saying I can't lock the doors, because I'm in the car (with the fob)?

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