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Re: New Groovy Washing Machine
Old 03-09-2006, 12:51 PM   #21
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Re: New Groovy Washing Machine

- Good job Nords

That's interesting in that the soap and water costs exceed the machine costs.

- Just a point though to be fair to the upscale washing machine crowd. If you have to include extra costs for faded/ruined clothing then the analysis probably leans to favor the tumbler machines. That is unless you get your clothes at garage sales.

Actually though I've got other things in my life that burn through alot more money than a washing machine. I think we pay more for dog treats than for washing machine, soap, water. This expense is way way down the list.
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Re: New Groovy Washing Machine
Old 03-09-2006, 01:07 PM   #22
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Re: New Groovy Washing Machine

Nords,
Yep, I think the assumptions/use modes make a bg difference in how the numbers crunch out. The fact that you don't use hot water makes up a lot of the difference (heck, in Hawaii it probably comes out of the ground at 120 deg F). Another possibly large factor is servce calls: those can get pricey fast, but I'm confident I can fix this machine myself (and my time is free, this will be fun and relaxing ). Also, eight loads a week is nthig fr us--and there are just three of us in the house. Thicker clothes in the midwest.

I think the Staber is probably only a little more efficient than front-loaders, so I'd have to make the case for the Staber on reliability and repairability. Like you, I'm drawn to the good design, but in our case it also saves $$. For many folks maybe it is a wash. (ugh!)


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Re: New Groovy Washing Machine
Old 03-09-2006, 01:13 PM   #23
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Re: New Groovy Washing Machine

Once again we get bogged down in the minutia...soap, water, energy costs. :P

I'm interested in more important laundry characteristics. Let's start with a basic question: is this a top loader or a front loader?


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Re: New Groovy Washing Machine
Old 03-09-2006, 01:39 PM   #24
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Re: New Groovy Washing Machine

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBlaster
- Just a point though to be fair to the upscale washing machine crowd. If you have to include extra costs for faded/ruined clothing then the analysis probably leans to favor the tumbler machines. That is unless you get your clothes at garage sales.
Funny you should mention that. Sometimes when we can't find what we want at Goodwill & garage sales we splurge at the Aloha Stadium Swap Meet, where $20 buys five t-shirts. With collars & sleeves, too!

In four years of ER I've spent a grand total of $365 on my wardrobe. If you back out the running shoes the total drops to $260.
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Re: New Groovy Washing Machine
Old 03-09-2006, 01:40 PM   #25
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Re: New Groovy Washing Machine

Rewahoo, I think thats disgusting.

Since I only think so, you should probably post a few more shots so I'll know for certain.
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Re: New Groovy Washing Machine
Old 03-09-2006, 01:56 PM   #26
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Re: New Groovy Washing Machine

Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo!
Let's start with a basic question:* is this a top loader or a front loader?
I think it depends on how many... I mean on which way it... I mean where it... I mean how much it...

oh, never mind.
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Re: New Groovy Washing Machine
Old 03-09-2006, 02:02 PM   #27
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Re: New Groovy Washing Machine

The extra cost of the machine is due to its rarity in the US market, nothing more. In Europe, 99% of the washers are front-load (or top-load like the machine samclem describes, which still has the drum rotating perpendicularly to the floor, rather than parallel to it). They are not "upscale" by any stretch of the imagination. They work with gravity to move the clothes around, instead of relying on brute force. They enjoy all the energy/water/detergent savings mentioned. There are American-style 'agitator' models on the market here, but they cost far more (again, due to higher energy costs and thus low demand / low production).

What you can't get here is a gas dryer (one or two models maybe, that cost around $1500), though gas is cheaper per load than electric drying. Everyone instead has laundry strung out in their living room. *
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Re: New Groovy Washing Machine
Old 03-09-2006, 02:12 PM   #28
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Re: New Groovy Washing Machine

Quote:
Originally Posted by ladelfina
Everyone instead has laundry strung out in their living room.
Spouse drew the line at that energy-saving proposal. Best I could do was a hanging rack on the back of the garage's side-exit door.

Chevron's Oahu propane-refining plant has just gone on the blink for an extended period and we're facing a propane shortage. Propane-carrying ships are on the way but it's still gonna put a crimp in a lot of utility bills.
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Re: New Groovy Washing Machine
Old 03-09-2006, 02:23 PM   #29
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Re: New Groovy Washing Machine

Detergent costs for a top loader run about 15c-32c a load depending on whether you're using uncle bobs super duper laundry detergent or tide.

About 90 top loader loads for a $15 jug of costco's tide equivalent. By my front loader usage, the same jug gets me roughly 450 loads of laundry. $50-60 bucks a year in savings. My washer does a load for half of the electric usage that Nords top loader does, so at my numbers thats saving me about $20 a year in electricity. I'll go out on a low limb and say its saving me $10 a year in water. So $80-90 a year in direct material cost savings.

I paid a few hundred bucks for costco jeans, short, sweat shirts and tee shirts...my basic wardrobe. Everything that I bought 5-6 years ago is still perfectly usable if I havent stained or ripped it. Annual wardrobe cost since going to ER: zero.

Oh yeah, and I can put WAY more stuff in this than a top loader. About 9 pairs of jeans or a california king comforter all fit easily. So I'm doing fewer loads. Didnt even factor that into the calcs.
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Re: New Groovy Washing Machine
Old 03-09-2006, 02:35 PM   #30
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Re: New Groovy Washing Machine

Quote:
The extra cost of the machine is due to its rarity in the US market, nothing more
different models aside, I wonder if the price of the tumblers won't come down as time goes on. When I looked a couple of years ago they werer all over $1000. Now you can get em' for ~$500 or so.

Like VCR/CD/DVD players I'll bet that next time I need one ( a washer) that the tumblers are competitive in price.

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Re: New Groovy Washing Machine
Old 03-09-2006, 07:10 PM   #31
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Re: New Groovy Washing Machine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
Chevron's Oahu propane-refining plant has just gone on the blink for an extended period and we're facing a propane shortage.* Propane-carrying ships are on the way but it's still gonna put a crimp in a lot of utility bills.
Thanks for the heads-up. We left-coast propane users will check our tanks before our suppliers get hit with an availability crunch and jack-up prices.
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Re: New Groovy Washing Machine
Old 03-09-2006, 07:14 PM   #32
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Re: New Groovy Washing Machine

Didn't Hawaii have some mandatory pricing caps on gasoline based on mainland prices?

From what I heard that may lead to shortages.

I wonder if propane is under the same sort of rules.

When the price gets too low... then they suddenly go on the blink.

Maybe there's a connection there. And you heard it here first !
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Re: New Groovy Washing Machine
Old 03-10-2006, 05:29 PM   #33
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Re: New Groovy Washing Machine

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBlaster
Didn't Hawaii have some mandatory pricing caps on gasoline based on mainland prices?
From what I heard that may lead to shortages.
I wonder if propane is under the same sort of rules.
When the price gets too low... then they suddenly go on the blink.
Maybe there's a connection there. And you heard it here first !
Hawaii's always had a consipracy theory with the oil indusry. The gas cap law has been in effect for several months now, and it inspires a lot of customer arbitrage.

On Wednesday the five sample wholesale prices of the west coast are examined and next week's gas price is determined-- the cap will go up by four cents or down by six cents or whatever.

On Thursday the gas stations are either jammed or deserted. Nothing in between.

I don't think gas prices here will ever get "too low", but the gas cap law has been touted as effectively reducing local prices after the Katrina scare blew over. In the past, the consipiracy pundits would have us believe that the price was raised for Katrina and never lowered again.
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Re: New Groovy Washing Machine
Old 03-11-2006, 06:49 PM   #34
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Re: New Groovy Washing Machine

Turns out the kenmore front loaders with the small window and the controls on top are made by a different manufacturer than the kenmore front loaders with the small window and the controls on the front.

Whirlpool for me. GE for you.

Which means I probably have some years of smooth sailing. Which is a bummer because I'd love a larger washing machine. This is sort of like when the tv blows up...i'm fairly happy about that...
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Re: New Groovy Washing Machine
Old 03-11-2006, 08:31 PM   #35
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Re: New Groovy Washing Machine

CFB,

Glad to hear you may get some more good years out of your machine.
GE sells one like my (dead) Kenmore, but I believe it was actually manufactured by Frigidaire (in Canada). To make it more confusing, the OEM spare parts are labelled as "Electrolux" (a Swedish company). A suspicious person would think the manufacturer is trying to hide the true origin of these machines.
As you pointed out, there are some major problems with some of the washers out there (the Neptunes, the Duets, the Calypso-- all big-buck machines that either tear up clothes, fail prematurely, leak, etc). Its just remarkable that (as far as I can tell) no major manufacturer has designed a washing machine with an emphasis on longevity and efficiency. This is a clothes washer--there's no cuting-edge technology required, just solid engineering progressive refining. I think shoppers concentrate on the appearance of the cabinet, the # of different wash cycles, and the initial cost.
I'm going to listen to the soothing sound of my new washer until I calm down again.

samclem

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Re: New Groovy Washing Machine
Old 03-11-2006, 09:06 PM   #36
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Re: New Groovy Washing Machine

Electrolux owns Fridgidaire...or maybe its the other way around...

There are some nice tables that show who made kenmores, based on the first 3 digits of the product manufacture. A quick google will get them.
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Re: New Groovy Washing Machine
Old 03-12-2006, 10:03 AM   #37
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Re: New Groovy Washing Machine

Washing machine nirvana....

We were over at the mall yesterday for lunch on a rainy Saturday. After lunch I strolled by the Sears appliance department. They had my (top loader Whirlpool) washing machine on sale for more than $100 more than I had paid for it. Plus they wanted another $60 for delivery. That would come out to (after tax) at right around $200 more than I paid or just under 70 percent more. I guess someone has to pay for all of that advertising.

I guess that's why I never bought an appliance from Sears.

I did ask the sales woman what she thought of my washer. Her comment was that Whirlpools are good but here's a much better one over here that'll last far longer (for twice the price). I think I'll just stick with what I've got. When it fails in 8 years or so I'll just buy another.

One thing I did notice though. The local water utility is giving $100 rebates for the front loader machines cause' they use less water. With that rebate the cheaper front loaders are almost price competitive with the top loaders. At least that's the case at Sears.
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Re: New Groovy Washing Machine
Old 03-12-2006, 10:41 AM   #38
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Re: New Groovy Washing Machine

PG&E always has rebates for front loaders...usually in the $75 range. However, some counties or towns also offer rebates on top of the pg&e ones.

Edit: Austin TX has $100 rebates going, The so cals upper San Gabriel valley Municipal Water District is offering a $275 rebate.

Sears has a funny closeout section that occasionally has a deal in it, but you have to look at it regularly and grab what you see, as anything good is gone in a blink...

This is different from the 'clearance center' you see on their web site...
http://tinyurl.com/hamgn
The longer stuff sits there, the cheaper it gets.


again, had to reduce the size of his URL
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